00;00;03;04 – 00;00;24;20
Mark
The Pursuit podcast a purely guest centric show focusing on people and organizations that advance positive change. Positivity can be anywhere, and in a time of vast discord, the pursuit of is finding those who championed its causes loudest. Join us as we sit and learn about the pursuits of local leaders in their communities. Let’s go.

00;00;26;05 – 00;00;36;01
Ryan
Hello everyone, and welcome to the pursuit of podcast, where it’s truly not us, it’s you. I’m here with our host, Mark Wilson, owner, new leonard media. How are you, sir?

00;00;36;02 – 00;00;37;03
Mark
Very, very well. How you been?

00;00;37;03 – 00;00;50;08
Ryan
I’ve been good. I That’s enough of that. My name is Ryan Buck, Artist development for New Leonard Media, and we’re delighted to be sharing the studio with Mindy Buell, executive director and CEO of Michael’s Place. Welcome.

00;00;50;09 – 00;00;51;26
Mindy
Well, thank you. Happy to be.

00;00;51;26 – 00;01;12;28
Ryan
You don’t have a studio audience, so we just kind of do the golf foursome. Well, thank you so much for being here and Michael’s place. For any of you who don’t know, Michael’s place provides support and advocacy for children, teens and adults grieving the death of a loved one and educates the community on the impact of grief. That is straight from the mission statement, Correct?

00;01;12;29 – 00;01;13;21
Mindy
Is that a good way?

00;01;13;21 – 00;01;14;21
Ryan
That’s the good elevator.

00;01;14;24 – 00;01;16;15
Mindy
That’s a great elevator. Excellent.

00;01;16;27 – 00;01;29;00
Ryan
So you have an interesting past and an interesting path to where you’ve been. But one of your first directorial positions came in 1992. So you went to the University of Toledo?

00;01;29;01 – 00;01;29;17
Mindy
I did.

00;01;29;27 – 00;01;33;18
Ryan
And you have BBA and you have a masters.

00;01;33;19 – 00;02;06;02
Mindy
I do, right? Yes. I got my master’s in education administration, and I really loved working in higher education. And I found this great passion of working at a program called Leadership U T, and it brought in the 50 what they would call like the 50 most inspiring leaders on the campus as freshmen. And then we really groomed them with kind of the motto of leaders are not born, they’re made.

00;02;06;17 – 00;02;38;08
Mindy
And we worked with them every week for a year and had some really great opportunities. It was a scholarship program for them as well. And we watched these 50 freshmen actually go into their sophomore years as president of the student body, as leaders throughout campus. It truly was an amazing experience and I loved it. And I was with that program for I think it was three years.

00;02;38;09 – 00;02;48;18
Ryan
Wow. So one of your first director positions was director of Greek Life Cracked. And I’m gathering you were doing that while you got your masters.

00;02;48;27 – 00;03;26;14
Mindy
Right. It was kind of simultaneously, Don, working on my master’s degree, working in Greek life, which was really a great experience for me. Great eye opener of how good things can be, as well as how difficult things can be on a college campus. We experienced the death, actually, my husband, I met my husband at the University of Toledo, and we experienced the death of one of his student employees who was killed on campus in a drunk driving car accident.

00;03;27;01 – 00;03;37;03
Mindy
So we experienced that and at the same time we experienced great joy of watching these young individuals become really amazing people.

00;03;37;04 – 00;03;48;10
Ryan
So director of Greek life, you had to. Did you have to like, shut down any fraternities? Did you have to get tough with people in that regard? Maybe were your peers in a way?

00;03;48;22 – 00;03;57;29
Mindy
I was really young when I was in that position, and so a lot of them thought I was their own age. I like to think it was because I looked young.

00;03;58;23 – 00;03;58;27
Mark
But.

00;03;59;19 – 00;04;45;05
Mindy
Not active. Young. Yes. But yes, in fact, what I was referring to of the student who was killed by a drunk driver on campus actually put my husband and I in two different places against one another. And that was very challenging for us as individuals, as well as a married couple. He was the associate dean of discipline for the university at that time, and I was the director of Greek life and the person who was in the car driving intoxicated who killed the student happened to be one of the fraternity members on campus and coming from a fraternity party on campus.

00;04;45;05 – 00;04;49;06
Mindy
And it was really a difficult time in our lives.

00;04;49;13 – 00;04;57;29
Ryan
Wow. You were definitely at odds, but also on the same page. I just yeah, that had to be really difficult, right?

00;04;57;29 – 00;05;24;29
Mindy
I remember saying to the fraternity when it just first happened, I said, Things are going to be okay. You know, you’re going to survive this. And then as it unfolded and the recognition that there was a problem, you know, that they were serving students who shouldn’t have been drinking at that time. And they came back to me and said, But Mindy, you told me we would be okay.

00;05;25;16 – 00;05;45;11
Mindy
I didn’t have the information, but they are okay. Unfortunately, we lost a really amazing young I say girl, but really young, wonderful female who was nearing her graduation date of being a nurse. And that was a traumatic loss of life, right? Mm hmm.

00;05;45;29 – 00;06;10;05
Ryan
So the mission statement and in many other locations talks about providing support and advocacy for children, teens and adults. And children and teens are always placed first. And I think that’s very interesting because I don’t remember that growing up necessarily. And I think that’s great. And should we be focusing more in this area? And was that part of the mission statement in 2001 when you started?

00;06;10;23 – 00;06;39;23
Mindy
It was in fact, that is the mission statement for the most part since we started back in 2001. I will say, though, that I’ve started to recognize a significant change or shift, and I’ll say this for me personally, is that we do focus on the unique grief of children and teenagers. And that’s very important because we hear so often children are resilient, They’re going to be okay.

00;06;40;12 – 00;07;06;21
Mindy
Well, that’s true. Children are resilient and they will be okay as long as they have healthy healing opportunities as well as adults who serve as mentors and role models and listening ears for them, they will be okay. Right. But I also recognize is that a lot of times the adults will forego their own healing in order to help the children.

00;07;06;21 – 00;07;08;14
Mindy
And that’s not helping the children.

00;07;09;03 – 00;07;21;02
Ryan
No. Right. And that’s got to be very tough because, you know, various parties are in various stages of grief. And again, as a parent, you put the armor on in your David Duchovny.

00;07;21;02 – 00;07;22;07
Mindy
Face, right?

00;07;22;20 – 00;07;25;09
Ryan
Yep. All right. I got to be tough and strong for my kids.

00;07;25;22 – 00;07;47;17
Mindy
Right. And I think that in some ways, that’s just a natural tendency as parents to do that. And in other ways, it’s a really great defense mechanism of if I just focus on my children, then I don’t have to think about how how bad the pain feels inside of me. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s really a catch 22.

00;07;47;17 – 00;08;13;12
Mindy
And that’s the great thing about Michael’s place. We look at it like, you know, being on an airplane and they say, you know, to the adults, if you have a child riding with you and something should go wrong on the plane, put your own oxygen mask on first before you put it on a child. And I would say at Michael’s place, it’s just a little different.

00;08;13;12 – 00;08;27;25
Mindy
It’s while you’re putting your oxygen mask on, we’re already helping the children. Right. Right. So we can do it simultaneously. We can work with the adults and we can work with the children. Right. At the same.

00;08;27;25 – 00;08;39;04
Mark
Time. Yeah, Because you can’t help anyone till you help yourself. But if it’s going to take you time personally as a parent to grieve, that’s time that the child’s not being tended to.

00;08;39;05 – 00;09;04;07
Mindy
Absolutely. Can I share a story here? Yeah, I think, my gosh, really? In our early years of Michael’s place and, you know, I look at all of the children and teens and adults who come to Michael’s place as the most courageous individuals. It is not easy to go into a group of strangers and share your most intimate fears and hardship and pain.

00;09;04;19 – 00;09;36;21
Mindy
And yet they do that and they do that every week. We had gosh, it was a young family. It was a mom and I and her daughter who were coming to Michael’s place and the story was that the daughter was grieving the death of her own father, who died very young of a heart issue. And when she came to Michael’s place, she had her own guilt that came with it, which is something very common that we see with people who have so much regret and guilt.

00;09;37;06 – 00;10;06;25
Mindy
And she came to Michael’s place and she said, gosh, I’m struggling so much. Every time my daughter says anything to me about her grandpa, she said, I just burst into tears. I can’t do it. I have to run into another room or I have to hide my face or my eyes. I just am not strong enough. And so time went on, and I’m going to say it was probably about three months of them coming to Michael’s place every week.

00;10;07;12 – 00;10;26;15
Mindy
And one day she said to her daughter, Honey, I want to let you know how sorry I am that every time you asked about Grandpa, I wasn’t able to be there for you. And I was so upset that I would cry and wouldn’t be able to talk to you about him. But I want to let you know that I feel better now.

00;10;26;27 – 00;10;41;13
Mindy
And anything you want to talk to me about, Grandpa, I am here. And I’m so sorry I was not there for you. And the daughter said to her, Mom, it’s okay. I had Michael’s place.

00;10;41;17 – 00;10;42;09
Ryan
Oh, my gosh.

00;10;42;11 – 00;10;45;11
Mindy
Right. She was five, five, five.

00;10;46;04 – 00;10;46;20
Ryan
Okay.

00;10;47;03 – 00;10;48;17
Mindy
That’s right.

00;10;48;21 – 00;11;11;20
Ryan
It’s a well-told story. But wow, how profound. Yes. And there’s honesty. I’ve seen and heard of moments where parents have just had that honest moment, like I screwed up or I was scared or, you know, when we were young, if you saw your dad cry, would melt your soul, ruin you forever. And now I think my kids have seen, you know, the end of a couple of movies.

00;11;11;20 – 00;11;25;21
Ryan
Get me and I’m like, okay, but you did a TEDTalk in 2019, and it’s it’s phenomenal. But early on, you tell a story about going to a visitation with your husband, Mike, right? Mike?

00;11;25;24 – 00;11;26;16
Mindy
Yes. Mike.

00;11;26;16 – 00;11;40;17
Ryan
Right. You go to this visitation and you’re unsure what to say. Right. And I think how you tell it, it’s so relatable because I think we’re all there. You’re in an office and you get the sympathy card and you don’t know what to say. At least I struggle with that.

00;11;40;18 – 00;11;41;11
Mindy
Right, Right.

00;11;41;11 – 00;11;45;18
Ryan
So you said you thought you did a good job with what you said.

00;11;45;20 – 00;11;47;10
Mindy
I’m proud of myself or my.

00;11;47;10 – 00;12;09;18
Ryan
Husband had other thoughts. Listen to this, Ted talk. It’s really good because I have a little moment, but you go on to say the perfect words don’t exist. A magic wand doesn’t exist. So given that, how difficult is it to manage work when people, you know, experience grief in so many different ways, sometimes maybe even there against their will?

00;12;09;18 – 00;12;13;05
Ryan
It could be a can’t just stop sobbing. How do you manage that?

00;12;13;06 – 00;12;17;15
Mindy
How do I manage it personally with helping families? Well.

00;12;17;26 – 00;12;26;29
Ryan
As an organization, for example, you know, how long does it take to get somebody involved in the process? And, you know, because it must take so many different types of.

00;12;26;29 – 00;12;55;13
Mindy
Yeah. I mean, I think that every story is different and unique. And I would say that every circumstance, it depends on so many things. And I will say that there are some stories and some families that struggle with their healing, and I’ve seen that take place when there’s a court case, when something continues to stop them from being able to really grasp their healing.

00;12;55;28 – 00;13;30;15
Mindy
And so we have that. But, you know, I’ll just give you an example of a story that happened here, and it was my dear friend, actually, who her daughter died at the age of 19 from suicide. And it was it crossed both worlds of my personal world and my professional world. And I remember going into her home with her children and her husband in the very beginning days of being able to comfort them and to help them.

00;13;30;15 – 00;13;43;29
Mindy
Her words continued to be to me, Am I going to survive this? Are we going to survive this? The grief is so intense that you can’t imagine ever being able to be whole again or.

00;13;43;29 – 00;13;44;05
Ryan
Feel.

00;13;44;05 – 00;14;16;07
Mindy
Happiness. Wow. Oh my gosh. That I am never going to smile again. I will never laugh. There will never be joy again in my life or in our family again. I look at where they’re at today and I am just so grateful that they trusted us enough at Michael’s place that they put trust and faith in us to say We’re going to allow you to share in our heartache and in our story, and we’re going to allow you to walk this journey with us.

00;14;16;08 – 00;14;30;07
Mindy
Right, Right. And so we did I can’t probably put two words how deeply connected we are to one another as a result of our time together through Michael’s place.

00;14;30;08 – 00;14;32;10
Ryan
I can’t imagine that not being the case.

00;14;32;11 – 00;14;32;25
Mindy
Right.

00;14;32;27 – 00;14;51;07
Ryan
They’ve got a little question about that a little later. But, you know, talking about in reading on the website, there’s a lot of things that are really profound to me on the site and what things I’ve seen you do. And you’re talking about somebody who doesn’t know if they’re going to survive it and they feel this literal obsidian weight above them.

00;14;51;07 – 00;14;58;05
Ryan
And you made a comment or I read it where some of these people are not living day to day or month to month. They’re living minute to minute.

00;14;58;07 – 00;14;59;05
Mindy
Absent, really.

00;14;59;05 – 00;15;13;02
Ryan
And some of them are to the place where they’re engaging with you yet. And that’s where friends and family can help with little things with a grocery store run. So in that, how important are the little things with somebody who isn’t engaged yet and is in that dark place?

00;15;13;03 – 00;15;45;25
Mindy
Yes, those little things are crucial. They’re so important. The things such as, you know, showing up to someone’s house with a casserole or a pie or whatever it might be, just as an excuse to walk into someone’s house and hug them and be present for them. I it in my TED talk, and I will repeat it here because I think it is the most important is we don’t have the magic words, the perfect words to be able to help somebody take that pain away from them.

00;15;45;29 – 00;16;08;28
Mindy
But what we do have is we have the ability to be present for them to listen to what they have to say, to not give our own $0.02 in it or not. Try to relate to them in a way to say, Oh, I know just how you feel. Because the reality is, is that no matter what your own story may be, you really don’t know how they feel, right?

00;16;09;01 – 00;16;33;10
Mindy
You might know how it feels yourself to experience grief, but you don’t know how they feel. Right. And so taking yourself out of that equation and just really be present and there are such great words to say, such as? I don’t know what to say, but I’m your friend and I’m here for you and I will remain here for you even in the darkest hours.

00;16;33;11 – 00;16;46;29
Ryan
I think that’s great. You know, and I think for some people, the notion of grief, specifically, if they haven’t experienced it, can be difficult. So they may have a friend that they don’t know what to do in Michael’s place. Could be a resource for somebody like that as well, correct?

00;16;47;10 – 00;17;17;15
Mindy
Oh, for sure. When we get calls, you know, from people in emails that say, I’m going to the visitation of my friend’s child or husband or wife, and I don’t know what to say, can you help me? And we are always here and happy to be able to give people the words or the tools that will help them feel more comfortable, because in the end, if they’re more comfortable, they will be more present for their friends.

00;17;17;16 – 00;17;37;12
Mark
Right. That’s good to know, because there’s too many times that count for me where I thought I was trying to say the right thing and pretty much put my foot in my mouth enough and leave feeling really guilty. And like you said, where I somehow you just lost your father. I lost my father. Right. Here’s how it made me feel.

00;17;37;13 – 00;17;37;25
Mindy
Right.

00;17;37;29 – 00;17;41;20
Mark
But maybe it’s not my time right now to talk about me.

00;17;41;26 – 00;17;42;21
Mindy
Right. Right.

00;17;42;21 – 00;17;43;25
Ryan
When you say I understand.

00;17;43;29 – 00;17;44;10
Mindy
Right.

00;17;44;11 – 00;17;48;08
Ryan
And even though you may have both lost fathers, it’s still different for both of you.

00;17;48;20 – 00;17;49;05
Mindy
Right.

00;17;49;06 – 00;17;55;18
Ryan
So I like what you said. Actually, that’s a personal takeaway for me, is I’m your friend and I’m here for you. And I will be here for you.

00;17;55;24 – 00;18;19;13
Mindy
Yeah. Yeah. Another thing, you know, Mark, you’re saying, you know, you lost your father and talking to someone who lost his father at that moment, you might not want to bring your father up, except in the sense of saying, I know what it feels like to lose a father and how important dads are. And I look forward to hearing about your father and who he was to you, what he brought to this world.

00;18;19;25 – 00;18;38;03
Mindy
One of the biggest things that people who are grieving the loss of a loved one worry about is that their loved one will be forgotten. And so what a beautiful gesture of friendship to say, you know, can we go and sit down for coffee? Because I would love to hear anything that you’d like to share about your dad.

00;18;38;25 – 00;18;46;22
Ryan
And, you know, there are and we’re seeing this now, just regular people who are doing that when in a setting like this. And they’re recording that for posterity.

00;18;46;23 – 00;18;47;01
Mindy
Right.

00;18;47;04 – 00;18;57;04
Ryan
Could be just a session like this. And you just say, hey, let’s talk about the good times, whatever we want to talk about. And you have something for a long time, which is about remembering and positive.

00;18;57;04 – 00;19;26;12
Mindy
Absolutely. That’s part of one of the programs that we have at Michael’s place. We were really grateful a couple of years ago to be recipients. We were one of six organizations in the country to be chosen by StoryCorps here, which is an oral history organization and StoryCorps. They capture conversations. It’s really about bringing people together and bringing conversations of questions and answers.

00;19;26;27 – 00;19;44;01
Mindy
And so they did a program called Road to Resilience, and they offered it, you know, for any organization in the country. We were recipients of it. They came from New York City to Traverse City, of course, in the coldest days that we’ve ever had. And and in 2000 years.

00;19;44;11 – 00;19;45;01
Ryan
We got those.

00;19;45;13 – 00;20;14;08
Mindy
Yes. And they did a training for 12 of us at Michael’s place and trained us on the equipment as well as the conversation. And we have recorded now 24 conversations. Incredible. Yes. I mean, we did it with triplet brothers who are in high school. They had a conversation amongst themselves about the death of their sister. We had conversations with mother and child about the death of a parent.

00;20;14;08 – 00;20;18;27
Mindy
I mean, there are a lot of things. And so conversations are so important to have.

00;20;18;28 – 00;20;22;05
Ryan
It seems like that’s always going to be part of the healing process, right?

00;20;22;07 – 00;20;23;27
Mindy
Listening for sure.

00;20;24;12 – 00;20;34;28
Ryan
But just purging, you know, I’m sure there’s a catharsis there. But that brings us to the Restoring Hope campaign and meeting Karen and Sarah.

00;20;35;12 – 00;20;36;01
Mindy
Right?

00;20;36;02 – 00;20;38;00
Ryan
The Sarah Mom.

00;20;38;07 – 00;20;40;04
Mindy
Did you see? I got me. Oh gosh.

00;20;40;04 – 00;21;07;01
Ryan
When the the bookmark came out of the right. You know, that’s so obviously, we’re talking about very emotional stuff. And it’s again, it’s very effective because, you know, as a nonprofit, you need support from grants and fundraising events, sponsors, volunteers. But this is something that you, you know, deal with every day. And so that’s where you got me a little ahead of time.

00;21;07;01 – 00;21;21;21
Ryan
How do you maybe leave work at work and how do you not get to consumed by all of this? Because like you said, there’s so much positivity, but there’s a lot of tough stuff, and I think it takes a lot of fortitude to do that.

00;21;21;22 – 00;21;50;01
Mindy
There is and I will say that it took me a while to be able to leave things at work, and I still don’t leave things at work all the time. Grief is personal and it’s very intimate and we get to know our families on such a beautiful level. And I can’t always shake that off, so to speak. And I don’t say that in a way that gives them any kind of disrespect.

00;21;50;15 – 00;22;10;25
Mindy
I mean, to say that, how do you leave it at work? I remember in the very beginning time where I would come home and I would just be in tears and I had two young boys and my husband and I would say, Oh my goodness, Mike, I had such a hard story. And it was, you know, and I give them some kind of synopsis of it.

00;22;10;25 – 00;22;14;14
Ryan
It’s got to be tough for your husband sometimes. Like, well, how was your day?

00;22;14;16 – 00;22;47;01
Mindy
Right. Well, I will say that Mike one day sat me down and said, I can’t have you do this anymore. And I said, Do this anymore. What are you talking about? He said, You can’t share those stories with me. And I said, okay, why not? Well, Mike, when he was 16 years old, his brother died from cancer. And he said to me every time I hear his story, all I think about is my mom and what she experienced when my brother died.

00;22;47;17 – 00;23;03;25
Mindy
And so I love you. I respect everything that you’re doing at Michael’s place. But I need you to find somebody else to be able to just process with. And so I thought to myself, Well, I’m an office of one. How do I do that?

00;23;03;25 – 00;23;05;00
Ryan
I didn’t suggest a pet.

00;23;05;02 – 00;23;32;10
Mindy
No, he did it or a stuffed animal. But I will say, though, that the founder of Michael’s place, her name is Chris Daniels, and we have been together since the very beginning and we found a wonderful friendship within the two of us. And so she really became a confidant of mine from the very early years. And I continue to turn to Chris when it’s times of celebration as well as difficult times.

00;23;32;13 – 00;23;49;24
Mindy
Right. And so we depend on one another. We are a staff of six people and we have days that are harder than others. And it is at that time that we go in an office, we shut the door and say, I really need to process something with you right? Mm hmm.

00;23;49;29 – 00;23;57;29
Ryan
Wow. That’s incredible, because it started out as a business relationship. And then obviously over time, Rice morphed into something quite special.

00;23;58;00 – 00;24;11;09
Mindy
It has definitely me. I look at my relationship with Chris Daniels as one of the most important ones in my life. And what she has taught me, mentored me. I am a better person because of her.

00;24;11;15 – 00;24;14;10
Ryan
Amazing. So the Restore Hope campaign.

00;24;14;13 – 00;24;14;29
Mindy
Yes.

00;24;15;09 – 00;24;16;10
Ryan
Talk to us about that.

00;24;16;11 – 00;24;44;11
Mindy
Well, ten or 11 years ago, we started what has become the largest fundraising event for Michael’s place, and that is our Restoring Hope Breakfast. It’s a one hour event where we share the mission of Michael’s place. Wonderful people come and they financially support the organization, both the day of as well as many who write pledges of 1 to 5 years of what they’re willing to help the organization with.

00;24;44;14 – 00;24;45;17
Ryan
This was a live event.

00;24;45;17 – 00;25;08;18
Mindy
It is a live event. And this is our first year because of COVID not being able to have the event. So that’s been really difficult. Connie Went Singer. She’s our development director at Michael’s place, and she changed the Restoring Hope Breakfast to the Restoring Hope campaign, and it has just kicked off for Michael’s place.

00;25;08;20 – 00;25;24;06
Ryan
Excellent. So at my Michael’s place, dot net, Yes. There are a couple of ways that you can give, right? Is there a specific way to get to the restoring hope campaign or is it better to just go to the main page on the right and donate when you click on the top right?

00;25;24;09 – 00;25;45;11
Mindy
I would say if you go to the my Michael’s place, start in that page. The Restoring Hope campaign should be listed right there. Okay. Anyone who would like to donate can donate through the website or if someone would prefer to write a check, they can put it in the mail and we’ll still count it as part of the Restoring Hope campaign.

00;25;45;23 – 00;26;08;01
Mark
And what’s great about this is they have, besides board members and staff, community members that support the organization such as yours truly have created a page that explains what Michael’s place means to me. And please consider making a contribution because of the great things they do and at no cost.

00;26;08;01 – 00;26;19;28
Mindy
Absolutely. It takes a village and at Michael’s place, we need a village to be able to help us raise the funds needed to remain a no cost group’s support center in our community.

00;26;19;28 – 00;26;36;28
Ryan
So there is that. There’s a misconception of a nonprofit, but you’re a nonprofit, but you’re still an operating business, right? Got to pay the light bill. So for listeners who may not know, what’s the surprising thing that you have to spend money on that a listener would be like, Huh? Oh, never thought about that.

00;26;36;29 – 00;27;01;26
Mindy
Well, you know, there are a lot of things from obviously buying light bulbs and having electricity in the building, but we pre-COVID part of our grief support groups on Monday evenings. We gather our families and our volunteers together and have dinner. And it is a great opportunity of people getting to know each other on a personal level outside of their grief.

00;27;01;26 – 00;27;14;25
Mindy
But really lots of generations in one room. And so we have plates and cups and napkins and things that we need every single week, as well as meals.

00;27;15;08 – 00;27;33;22
Ryan
For People need to understand the term nonprofit appropriate and donate as much as you can. And often you make it really easy on the made website. I think you can go to that and make sure you are looking at those individual pages because a lot of great stories and a lot of heart and a lot of emotion. Thank you so much for being here.

00;27;34;04 – 00;27;48;07
Ryan
Being a movie guy, is there a movie that you think is a really great movie as it relates to grief? It could be a comedy, a drama. I’m just a movie guy and I think it’s relatable. But is there anything that you’ve ever seen that really speaks to the subject very well?

00;27;49;05 – 00;28;11;26
Mindy
Oh, gosh, you’re putting me on the spot and this is what I needed to think about going into it. Yeah, I look at the movie phenomenon. If you read what John Travolta and I write and here he is thinking, Wow, look at this world that I’m in now. And things really turn around.

00;28;11;26 – 00;28;14;07
Ryan
Experiencing grief and loss of a.

00;28;14;21 – 00;28;31;11
Mindy
Spouse. And Kyra Sedgwick is the wife, isn’t she the wife in that movie? Yeah. Or the person who loves him dearly. And watching her, you know, when he’s gone. I look at that as being very appropriate. Nice. Excellent.

00;28;32;11 – 00;28;33;08
Mark
Yeah. Great answer.

00;28;33;09 – 00;28;57;17
Mindy
Thank you. You know that part of phenomenon is that we were right around the time of my husband’s brother’s death. He died on Mother’s Day, and we were living in Ohio at the time. And Mike and I came to Traverse City to spend Mother’s Day with his mom. And it was just a really tough weekend. And so Phenomenon had just come out at the movies.

00;28;57;17 – 00;29;20;02
Mindy
And I said, Hey, it looks like there’s this great movie because we’re feeling so bad about great John Travolta. Yeah, yeah. With Greg died. Let’s, you know, we’re feeling so bad about his death. And so how about the two of us go to this movie not having any understanding, you know, spoiler alert that John Travolta dies in the movie.

00;29;20;02 – 00;29;20;12
Mindy
That was.

00;29;20;12 – 00;29;24;26
Ryan
Before, you know, 90 different trailers and right. We didn’t know.

00;29;24;27 – 00;29;43;00
Mindy
We had I had no understanding. And so the two of us sat in the movie theater just sobbing. And in the end, that’s probably what we needed to do anyway, just to be able to let it out and lean into the grief and be in that moment and then be able to talk about it when it was over.

00;29;43;07 – 00;29;48;05
Ryan
Are you able to watch it currently without tying to that particular day or.

00;29;48;19 – 00;30;11;15
Mindy
Yeah, I think that if I, you know, and I always will think about his mom and her heartache when I watch that movie about appropriately so of just, you know, there are people in our world who they will always be hurting because of the loss of a loved one. But it’s not a bad thing to think about those who, you know, are struggling.

00;30;11;17 – 00;30;12;07
Mindy
Absolutely.

00;30;12;28 – 00;30;20;05
Ryan
Well, Mindy, thank you so much for doing this and for talking about Michael’s place. Is there anything else you’d want to share with the listeners?

00;30;20;05 – 00;30;43;05
Mindy
You know, it’s been great. I have really enjoyed my time here with the two of you. And I would say that at Michael’s place, I mean, we have a motto that if we’re not laughing or crying and so laugh often laugh much and try to keep that laughter going as long as you can. And we do what we can to bring that joy to our grieving families as well.

00;30;43;05 – 00;30;43;29
Ryan
And hope.

00;30;44;09 – 00;30;47;17
Mindy
Right? Hope. Well, it’s all about restoring hope.

00;30;47;18 – 00;30;50;11
Ryan
Excellent. Mr. Wilson, thank you, as always.

00;30;50;21 – 00;30;51;11
Mark
Jimmy Gooch.

00;30;51;22 – 00;31;01;26
Ryan
Thank you. All for listening. You have been with many of you, all executive director, CEO of The Amazing Michael’s Place. Thank you so much.

00;31;07;12 – 00;31;49;27
Mark
Hey, thanks again for listening to the pursuit of podcast. For more information and to show your support, please go to my Michael’s place dot net. And also a big shout out to our show supporters. The tin lid hat company. Tin lid COCOM use promo code. The pursuit of. Please join us again to learn of more pursuits from leaders in our community and feedback is always appreciated.