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Mark

The Pursuit podcast appeared on the guest centric show focusing on people and organizations that advance positive change. Positivity can be anywhere and in a time of vast discord. The pursuit of is finding those who championed its causes loudest. Join us as we sit and learn about the pursuits of local leaders in their communities. Let’s go.

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Ryan

Hello, good people and welcome to the pursuit of podcast where it’s truly not us, it’s you. I’m s. And with me as always, is the boss. Mark Wilson, President, New London Media.

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Mark

Hey, Ryan.

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Ryan

Hey, how are you?

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Mark

I’m doing really well. It’s beautiful.

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Ryan

It is getting up. That’s enough of that. With us today is Julie Clark, executive director, TART Trails. Julie, thank you for being here.

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Julie

It is my pleasure. Thank you having.

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Ryan

Me. Well, I’m going to start by saying I am a little bit star struck because in researching this particular and I probably should have said this off, Mike, but I’m just trying in researching this podcast, your passion for the tar trails and your charisma, coupled with the fact that probably my favorite thing about living here on the tar trails.

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Julie

Yeah.

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Ryan

Truly. And so I’m a little bit starstruck because of what you’ve done. And so thank you really for being here. But looking back, most of your early career was spent in North Carolina. But you grew up in Indiana. Is accurate, is that true?

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Julie

You know, for. Yeah, I did. I was a Air Force brat for a while. So. But most of my childhood is Indiana based. Yeah. Lafayette so Purdue University side of the river.

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Ryan

That’s a that’s a thing there’s a the team there.

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Julie

Right the boilermakers are only but that’s the other side of.

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Ryan

The river not a sports guy so sorry listeners who I’ve offended but you moved to Traverse City specifically for this role, is that right?

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Julie

I did, yeah. We were in North Carolina. I was loving it. My husband wasn’t so we were looking around and the job at TARP came up and I applied and it was a long and awesome process. But yeah, it got me up here and it was pretty cool.

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Ryan

Well, you just opened the door for a question that I had later wrong ask it now, what was the interview process for this position? Because you’d think it was maybe like hand in hand walking through the woods. But was it a boardroom like an austere boardroom with suits looking at you?

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Julie

It was a lot of things. It was long. I had to fly up twice. My first meeting was a7am, I think. Meeting, yeah. Yeah. Brutal. I don’t do mornings, so I had to really up my game and it was we were in the on the second floor of the Bank of Northern Michigan at the time. Now it’s the Haggerty building there across from the post office.

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Julie

But it was a table full of gentlemen around a banking table, whereas one woman there and she was the person, Kate Green, whom I adore and work with today. Yeah, I was surrounded by a table of very inquisitive, very smart and well prepared men, including the executive director, Bob Short, while on my right. It was an intense process and it was all day.

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Julie

That was my intro is a many, many hour around that board table interview session and then a lot of walking and talking.

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Ryan

Pleasant illusion shattered of you hand in hand with people walking along the territory.

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Julie

We did that.

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Ryan

Oh, you.

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Julie

Did do later. No hand in hand. They did not know none of that. There was a party involved. And this is how I knew that I was going to love this board. I was. They put me up at the Park Place, which I believe you are very familiar with.

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Ryan

Yeah, I am.

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Julie

And they were like, Hey, you should come down for drinks. And I thought, Oh, I like these people. I’m in.

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Ryan

Did you feel like it was a trap of any sort or they’re trying to gauge how you are socially as well.

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Julie

You know, the pieces of advice I got before I left North Carolina. My boss at the time was like, if they ask you to go to drinks, don’t do it, don’t do it. I was like, Oh, okay. And then I did it because it was great and they were wonderful and they had me at Hello. They were amazing.

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Julie

Wow.

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Ryan

That’s great.

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Mark

I wonder why he was worried about.

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Julie

How his own to sound. And I was a young woman and I was thinking my experience with her.

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Mark

You know, oh, he wasn’t worried that you would say something. We get a little toasty and say something.

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Julie

You know, I think it was a Southern gentleman thing where he just he was there. It was a different I was called ma’am or little missy a lot when I worked in the South.

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Ryan

Little Miss Little Missy Girl.

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Mark

So that’s those are words of disrespect of wow.

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Julie

It would be weird now to hear that.

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Ryan

Your previous experience was almost exclusively planning and development, and you’d been a director in this kind of capacity before.

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Julie

Government.

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Ryan

Government. Did you feel well-prepared when you arrived here? And what was it about Traverse City that lured you?

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Julie

Uh huh. It’s funny because I knew about Traverse City before I came up, I worked with Mark VANDERKAM, who was at Corban Design for a long time, and they did our wayfinding signage down there. We had hired them to do wayfinding, so I knew of Traverse City and used to make fun of it because he’d call in May and he’s like, Oh, we’re going to go skiing.

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Julie

You’re like, That terrible.

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Ryan

That’s entirely possible. Ladies and gentlemen.

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Julie

I think I may be exaggerating, but it felt like you said that in May.

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Mark

Stranger things have happened.

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Ryan

Yeah, that is true.

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Julie

I believe we ski a couple of Aprils ago in Lake Glade, a.

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Mark

Golf course, and it snowed like the June of 1996.

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Julie

It snowed up here, so it was not here and I would never have come here. So what hooked me was the town immediately. The story that we tell is my husband and I, when we were flying in, we looked right. You fly into the airport and you see the water and you see the trees. And then my husband leans over and just said, Don’t screw this up.

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Mark

Oh, man.

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Julie

That was our first interview.

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Ryan

Just visually for him. He felt something flying in.

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Julie

My husband’s a water and woods guy. Grew up in the Everglades or what were the Everglades later turned into Coral Springs and you know, Fort Lauderdale, Mass. Down there. Yeah. So he was woods and water all the way. And he saw that and and he was home.

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Ryan

You have a bachelor’s degree in mass communication from Miami of Ohio where you graduated kumari.

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Julie

Co redhawks.

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Ryan

Nice. And this is a school that’s in ohio for people that are confused. I thought we should clarify that.

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Julie

We were a university before Florida was a state.

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Ryan

It’s one of the older universities in the country.

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Julie

18 something.

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Ryan

And that seems like a great school in general for what you do because there’s research components and things like that. But mass communication, what was your initial career goal and does the skill set that you learn there apply to what you do now?

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Julie

I had no career goal. I don’t think I didn’t. I changed my major nine times.

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Ryan

Okay.

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Julie

I wound up in mass communications because I didn’t know what I wanted to do really. And I had accumulated so many credits. I think it was fine then my junior year and they were like, Dude, you got to declare. So I had a major in Mass communications, a minor in environmental studies, and then almost got my film minor one credit short.

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Ryan

Oh, I know. Is that something you ever want to go back to and get just so you have another thing?

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Julie

No, I just like my Netflix now.

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Ryan

Okay. So, well, mass communication, that seems like a good catch. All mass communication. Let’s do that.

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Julie

I thought I was going to go into the science field and kind of save the world by explaining science to all of us. Just dumb it down so people like me could understand what we could be doing better to live better. Healthier.

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Mark

We really needed you last year.

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Julie

Well, I was more on the climate side and the wildlife and I went to Washington DC between my junior and senior year and lobbied because I thought, Oh, Moon and I didn’t like that.

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Ryan

Yeah, well, it’s interesting you said before we sTARTd that you know nothing about science, but you hold a master of science degree for which the Latin is majesty, right? Science. Wow. Sounds like a Harry Potter spell. I guess you never use the Latin because that sounds really rad.

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Julie

I never. Husband would be very disappointed at the science teacher that he is.

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Ryan

Yeah, that was from the University of Florida. And that kind of seemed to indicate a redirection to your passion. Now, I. What brought you to.

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Julie

Go get fieldwork? Like, go get my boots muddy? I went to the World Wildlife Fund and I wanted to work there in D.C. and do, you know, kind of again, change the world. And they said, go learn about the world, get dirty, get humbled, and then you can come back and you can try to tell other people what to do.

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Ryan

What gave you that advice?

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Julie

He was one of the directors at World Wildlife Fund. He’s gone on to work at the National Park Foundation, do all kinds of things. But he was like a mentor that I really appreciate. It was like, Go, yeah, do and work and sweat and toil and get real. That’s for you.

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Ryan

What to change, what to focus on, and.

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Julie

What people are fighting for and why they’re fighting maybe against each other. Like go understand both sides. So I worked in the Everglades for two years.

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Ryan

Really? Mm hmm.

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Julie

Mm hmm.

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Ryan

That’s real. That’s messy stuff. That’s really in it.

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Julie

It was really an.

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Ryan

It was a dangerous. No, no, no.

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Julie

I mean, I could’ve gotten smashed by a sugar truck, but that’s about it.

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Ryan

What a way to go.

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Mark

So there wasn’t, like, the python problem out there.

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Julie

You know, the python wasn’t that bad. There were a lot of snakes. Lots of snakes. It was hot and it was hard work. And you don’t get paid much. But I loved it because there were lots of snakes and I did alligator and crocodile work.

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Ryan

This points to your toughness because you said not dangerous. You’ve said alligators, snakes, chronic heat, sugar, truck mashing. I think you’re underselling this a little bit.

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Julie

No, it was a lot of field work. It was a lot of research. I did get to see kind of all across sections of South Florida and see how everybody was interacting or playing well together or not playing well together. The Everglades, you know, it’s it’s kind of a hot mess down there. And I just really enjoyed the complications that it introduced.

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Julie

It wasn’t black and white, you know, farms weren’t good or bad. And wildlife biologist, not good, not bad. It was just a really good eye opening experience on what we do to the earth that we live on and why we do it and understanding, I think, all the different perspectives.

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Ryan

Right. Well, that’s interesting because in looking at your trajectory, I was wondering and I think you answered the question if you ever thought about going into teaching or going into academia, but it sounds like did this fieldwork that mentor take you off that path for sure and assure that you would always be in the field, as it were?

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Julie

You know, I teaching. No, I don’t have I know what a good teacher looks like. I’m married to one. And I’m not that. I don’t have patience for that. I don’t have that. It’s a gift. I really do think the good ones have a gift. I don’t have it. Academia. I ended up doing my master’s degree at Florida.

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Julie

And what I loved about it was I love research. I love finding out like y about things and you know, what makes things and people tick and why the whys. I love the whys and my team at Target make fun of me. They have really funny little marks for me. Some of them are very inappropriate and I won’t share out loud.

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Julie

But I’m a data nerd and I you can’t give me too much information. Sometimes they want to kill me because I ask for so much information before I want to make a decision. Right. Or why they made a decision. I want to know all the whys, but the data part was cool. But what I again found working in academia, we wrote a lot of plans and we worked with a lot of communities.

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Julie

Is the, you know, universities would come in with these great ideas and great plans, but oh my. Ghana executing on that stuff. Yeah. When it was created in a university lab, so to speak, like that was tough, right? I didn’t I wanted to see the change on the ground and work with the communities. And, you know, you do university research, leave a paper or a plan and you walk away.

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Julie

Yeah.

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Ryan

Well, I feel like anything that has an environmental impact that’s a good trade to have is over analysis. Right. And it has an impact on people, too. Yeah, right. So that’s hard. Essentially, if I have this right formed in 1998 and 1999 and what made it come together was kind of interesting because there are different associations, organizations, maybe even ownership stakes and that has that changed it all?

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Ryan

Is that structure, what’s the back of the house look like now or is it the same as it was back then?

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Julie

No, it’s very different now. So even the board makeup was different when the four groups formed. So they were four separate trail organizations and they were really all doing their own thing. And what taht can ask them all to do is, hey, figure out your priorities and figure out how to work together. And then we all have a common goal.

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Julie

Let’s try to work for the common goal, which means sometimes people had to wait or compromise. And so even when the board was put together, it was like representatives from the Leelanau trail, the Tart Trail, the Vasa and the Boardman, and that was the board. Those distinctions are no longer there now. My founders are all still around, so the women and men, not all we lost like Ted Oka Ostrom and a couple others along the way, but the founders are mostly still there and still super passionate about the trails that they helped form.

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Julie

Wow. And I, I just have a huge amount of respect and debt of gratitude to all of them that gave because. Right. That was voluntary blood, sweat and tears that they put into it and their life to bring these trails to fruition. Like Tim Brekke is one of the founders of The Turtle Trail and he’s still living and breathing that every day.

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Julie

They monster. One of the founders of the Leelanau Trail actually hosted a stop and is still to this day working every Tuesday and Thursday on the trail. I mean, they don’t ever go away, give up and their expectations are so high like to try to meet them is a is a constant goal for us.

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Ryan

It’s amazing that you were able to integrate and create a unified system. I feel like that’s rare that you’re able to do something like that.

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Julie

I think it’s all those guys and gals in the beginning who are really able to put away their egos.

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Ryan

And that’s where I was going.

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Julie

Yeah. Yeah.

00;14;29;20 – 00;14;38;26

Ryan

Wow. So when you arrived and you became more immersed in your position, was there anything right away that concerned you or opportunities that stood out like immediately?

00;14;39;05 – 00;14;57;02

Julie

Yeah. One of the first weeks I was sat down by Gender NZ and shut corn. Anyway, I sat down with the city and the township and gender NZ called us all together and said, there’s this thing you need to know about. And that’s the Boardman Lake Trail and we need to get this done because one of my first weeks on the job.

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Julie

So yeah, there was an opportunity right there. Right there. Right. And look, that was 11 years ago and we’re just about to.

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Ryan

See the recording of this podcast. It is quite poignant because there’s a lot of news about you and what you’re doing, and I think positive news, which is pretty great.

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Julie

The you I’m going to just be clear here, the US chart there is no Julie, it’s the US chart. Just to be.

00;15;22;00 – 00;15;38;17

Ryan

Surprised, there was well to that point and you look at the historic development of chart when you arrived, there was a lot of activity pretty quickly and a lot of progress. So how do you look back on that initial first few years?

00;15;38;21 – 00;15;57;28

Julie

Oh, gosh, yeah. I mean, I think we got 40 miles of trail on the ground. My first five years. So it was an accelerated pace. That is a little bit mind numbing today. So Sleeping Bear Heritage Trail, that was an opportunity just right there, ready to go. We had no idea it was going to go Leelanau trail. A grant came in.

00;15;57;28 – 00;16;17;16

Julie

I mean, we had to raise massive amounts of money, which I’d never done before because I was government. So I had tax dollars, right? Because it’s very different. You have to be very, very careful with both private or tax. Those are, to me, just as precious as private donors. But to raise private dollars was a new ballgame.

00;16;17;17 – 00;16;37;12

Ryan

We talk about that a lot on the podcast with nonprofits and how that’s a misnomer and how grant money and how, you know, tenuous that can be. Can you talk a little bit to that, your experience with that? Because I think there’s a misnomer out there about how, oh, they have all this money and people donate and it’s not really the case.

00;16;37;13 – 00;17;00;20

Julie

It’s fun. My mom was asking me that just this weekend. She was like, Well, how do you pay your staff? And I said, Well, we raised the money every year because we are 93% supported by private dollars. So those are individuals or foundations like Rotary or Olson that help support our work. And it’s an annual left. So we don’t really get federal grants in the trail world.

00;17;00;20 – 00;17;27;11

Julie

Most of the construction money comes to our state and federal and local agencies. So road commissions are cities. Sure. So that’s where, you know, if, for example, the Boardman Lake Trail is going to be a $6 million project, let’s say most of that is coming from local sources, whether that’s brownfield or state funds. So we help write all those grants most times to get that public funding in.

00;17;27;11 – 00;17;45;23

Julie

So that’s what part staff is doing, right? Or hiring out. And then, for example, with the Boardman, you know, we raised over a million in addition to that money to partner with our public. So it really is a true public, private partnership, right, to bring these trails to fruition, which is different than when I was in North Carolina.

00;17;45;23 – 00;17;57;27

Julie

When I was in North Carolina, it was all public. It was 100% like taxpayer funded. It was a flip when I got here that quite set up the same way. So I had to learn a lot here.

00;17;58;19 – 00;18;01;16

Ryan

You knew that going in, it was just you knew that you had to learn?

00;18;01;26 – 00;18;18;17

Julie

I knew I had to learn. That’s what I knew. Yeah, I knew I had worked on some nonprofit boards. I’d seen what dysfunctional nonprofits look like. I’d never seen a functional one. So taht was pretty great because we were pretty functional. Baseball did an amazing job, sort of laying the foundation there that we could work from.

00;18;18;17 – 00;18;26;19

Ryan

Well, I mean, you know, you had that initial night out, you know, some drinks and you created your shorthand. You remember what you had. Did you go conservative?

00;18;26;19 – 00;18;34;00

Julie

I did. I think I had a glass of red wine there and then did not know my love of bourbon then. So which is probably good.

00;18;34;14 – 00;18;39;04

Ryan

And you mentioned staff. So you currently have ten official staff members about.

00;18;39;04 – 00;18;40;06

Julie

Yeah, yeah. Wow.

00;18;40;10 – 00;18;51;09

Ryan

So when you look at somebody joining your team, what qualities does somebody have to possess to be on your team? What is something that if they don’t have it, it’s a deal breaker.

00;18;51;18 – 00;19;02;12

Julie

They have to love the mission of Target. They have to they just have to groove on helping people get there, find their way around on foot and on their bikes. So that’s.

00;19;02;12 – 00;19;19;18

Ryan

You know, how do you find that out? I mean, it’s easy for somebody to say, oh, I’ve got passion for this. Is it just you have a feeling it’s instinct or is there something they can do or demonstrate to show up for the interview on a bike, for example, like you showed up to this, this recording, which is real on brand, how do they demonstrate that?

00;19;20;00 – 00;19;38;08

Julie

You know, I try to make sure that I’m being real open minded, but I think one of the ways that has been demonstrated is they volunteer with us almost everybody on my staff has been involved with trails in one way or another, so they’ve given their time or talents. One of my board members ended up being a staff.

00;19;38;08 – 00;20;01;24

Julie

That was weird because it’s like you’re hiring your boss, so but it was great. It was an amazing fit. So for me, you know, it it’s not too hard to dig into that authenticity, you know, like you can talk a good game, but we have a really pretty in-depth hiring process. And I always bring in outside and board members, help and staff, all my staff meet everybody anytime we hire.

00;20;01;29 – 00;20;06;25

Ryan

So is it a similar process to you? Do you put them in a big room and surround them in a circle and.

00;20;07;00 – 00;20;07;14

Julie

No.

00;20;07;14 – 00;20;11;04

Ryan

Intimidate them for two days, see if they got the grit?

00;20;11;05 – 00;20;13;17

Julie

No, but we ask some good questions.

00;20;13;17 – 00;20;26;17

Ryan

I think that’s excellent. Yeah. Well, you mentioned the board is the board 100% volunteer based. Yeah. And what are the terms and how diverse is the current board? And furthermore, how important is it to have a diverse board for Taggart?

00;20;26;22 – 00;20;46;29

Julie

Well, like I said at the beginning, I took this job because of the board. I thought, Oh man, if I get to work with people like this, like these are the kind of people leading our organization. I mean, and the board, I was terrified, the kind of first board transition that we had. We have three year terms. Some board members serve maybe two terms.

00;20;46;29 – 00;20;58;14

Julie

We don’t actually have term limits, something we’ve talked about but never really done because sure, it’s been a very fluid evolution on the board. And anyway, that’s a podcast for a different podcast.

00;20;58;17 – 00;21;01;20

Ryan

Check out your board, I guess, make additional.

00;21;01;20 – 00;21;34;16

Julie

Board governance. So I love my board. I trust them implicitly to give me and staff some sound direction and guidance. I love how enthusiastic they get. We do have a pretty diverse board both in age and backgrounds, and I’m excited that we have a little bit more representation in, you know, kind of who is around the region. So we do have older, younger, male or female, just different, you know, kind of races and religions on there.

00;21;34;16 – 00;21;36;24

Julie

And so I’m really excited about them.

00;21;36;24 – 00;21;58;02

Ryan

When you said I love how enthusiastic they get, sometimes that’s a euphemism for like a real pain. But you said it, ladies and gentlemen. It was very sincere. She meant enthusiastic. Not the other thing. But you’ve also mentioned in you open doors for a lot of good questions. But you mentioned volunteers and you count on a lot of volunteers.

00;21;58;02 – 00;22;07;10

Ryan

Now, what has the last year and a half done to your volunteer pool? And are you struggling now or did you, through all the COVID and everything like that?

00;22;07;10 – 00;22;27;19

Julie

Well, again, the volunteers we have so we have 121. They’re called ambassadors. They’re our front line kind of folks who are out there all the time working for the trails. One of that ambassador crew is called the Leland Trail Crew, and those are their guys. They’re a group of guys who are out every Tuesday and Thursday who maintain that trail.

00;22;27;19 – 00;22;51;15

Julie

They’re the ones that you see clearing brush or repairing the asphalt. We actually own that. Leland on trail between Traverse City and Sutton Space. That’s our responsibility. They were out there all during the pandemic, so they were deemed essential workers because the influx of people that we saw on the trails, they were out there making sure that those trails were safe and operational so that we could all get out and stay active and healthy.

00;22;51;27 – 00;23;12;13

Julie

And what we saw was we did have to put a pause on kind of a lot of our volunteer opportunities. Typically, you know, volunteers come in in many different forms. But one of the factors I think that draws them is that ability to meet others or to socialize and have that, you know, sense of community. And that was really hard to do during COVID.

00;23;12;13 – 00;23;32;27

Julie

So we tried to either send out households or individuals so that they could still go to work. But we did have to put a pause. You know, we followed the governor’s orders pretty much to the T to make sure we were keeping people safe. And now volunteers are back with a vengeance. They’re coming in new and all. You know, all the folks that used to work with us are right back in.

00;23;32;27 – 00;23;43;08

Julie

And the minute we opened, you know, the gates back open. So to speak, they were there. I mean, they’re they’re doing everything they did, the big transformation plantings. So we have artwork going in on the tarp. They’re doing that.

00;23;43;12 – 00;23;44;02

Ryan

Really? Where is that.

00;23;44;02 – 00;24;09;24

Julie

Going to be? That’s going to be right near TBA, SD and the Cherry Capital Airport. That’s part of a we redid and this is another thing I love working with tart on is it takes all of us to take care of our communities. And so like the transformation as a partnership between the city of Traverse City, Grand, Traverse County, East Bay Township, Cherry Capital Airport, and then, you know, volunteers very specific like helping bring in landscaping.

00;24;09;24 – 00;24;29;00

Julie

We have a new piece of art that’s going in there. So it’ll be a metallic structure. So it’s like a back seating. And we widened that trail. So it was like an eight foot wide. That was the original trail. That trail right between Woodmere and Three Mile was one of the first stretches of the taht built in 19.

00;24;29;28 – 00;24;37;19

Julie

Oh, John Robert Williams It’s going to kill me because I don’t remember my dates. I don’t know my kids birthdays. So how am I going to remember anything? 1990, but let’s say 95.

00;24;37;20 – 00;24;43;16

Ryan

All right. Nobody’s going to refute you in this room. 1995. Everybody knows the first.

00;24;43;16 – 00;24;46;23

Julie

30 years ago. So somebody do the math. 1990.

00;24;46;29 – 00;24;47;17

Mark

I would have been 90.

00;24;47;17 – 00;24;52;00

Julie

One. 91. Thank you, Mark. Yeah, there’s a winner. I’m not the man.

00;24;52;02 – 00;24;54;04

Ryan

We got there together as a team. There we.

00;24;54;07 – 00;24;57;17

Julie

Go. See all about collaboration. What I’m saying.

00;24;57;25 – 00;25;03;05

Ryan

Well, how many miles do you have now? And what’s the vision for the next five years? Are you looking at it like that?

00;25;03;05 – 00;25;30;14

Julie

We do. We? Yeah. So 100 miles thereabouts of trail on the ground today that we are involved with in one shape or another. In the next 20 we’d like to double that. So another 100 miles. Wow. In this next year alone, we have about five miles that’ll go on the ground. So that’s pretty exciting. And then, you know, there’s some big ones out there like the nickname The Trail Way that connects up to Charlevoix in Acme, that’s going to be 40 plus, 46 plus miles.

00;25;31;04 – 00;25;45;27

Ryan

It’s exciting. Yeah. So is there an aspect of your job that would be surprising for a layperson to hear? Is there anything about your day to day that would be like, Wow, she has to do that? Ah, that’s interesting.

00;25;46;20 – 00;25;55;20

Julie

My day to day, I think people think I’m on the trails a lot more. It’s not surprising or interesting. It’s sort of sad in a lot of ways.

00;25;55;21 – 00;26;00;03

Ryan

Sad about your job. I didn’t want to frame it that way, but here we are.

00;26;00;03 – 00;26;20;27

Julie

Well, you know, I’m a half class. Have to go. No, I think people do think like we’re on I’m on the trail all the time. And mostly I’m in meetings to try to get more trail on the ground or kind of get all the cats together. I think one of the more interesting parts I’m trying to think like what is more surprising?

00;26;20;27 – 00;26;23;15

Ryan

Are your yard knocked out sad? You know what it is?

00;26;23;15 – 00;26;35;10

Mark

Rain is like sometimes the things that we’re going to find very interesting and intriguing. She doesn’t think about because mundane. Yeah because it’s your day to day and we have.

00;26;35;10 – 00;26;48;23

Ryan

No it’s a good point you know the idea that you know one of us could be biking on the tart trail and you’re just sitting there, you know, with weather experimentation, you know, trying to gauge, you know, gradients and stuff. You know, I think is.

00;26;48;23 – 00;26;49;28

Julie

That generally.

00;26;50;27 – 00;27;09;20

Ryan

But here the reality is there’s a lot of administration. There’s a lot of advocacy. Advocacy of advocacy. You got it. Don’t edit that out. I’m I’m human. I’m frail. And, you know, you need to, again, connect a lot of pieces aside from a staff that you have and volunteers that you need to motivate and maintain.

00;27;09;25 – 00;27;10;03

Julie

Mm hmm.

00;27;10;16 – 00;27;13;24

Ryan

And new artwork that you need to facilitate and all of that.

00;27;14;02 – 00;27;23;19

Julie

Yeah, I love that. I have somebody on my staff who knows all about art because we had a program that’s out there, and then Caitlin came, and now we’ve art on the part and it’s awesome.

00;27;23;21 – 00;27;25;27

Ryan

Okay. Is that a coin term? Art on the.

00;27;26;03 – 00;27;27;21

Julie

Art on the chart? It is a program.

00;27;27;21 – 00;27;29;20

Ryan

Can’t be the first time it was said.

00;27;29;20 – 00;27;42;06

Julie

No, no, it’s yeah it’s a real thing. And you will see it at 10th Street Trailhead you will see it by tbe AEST, you’ll see it while you’ll see it at the time to let go statue that’s there and.

00;27;42;06 – 00;27;43;19

Ryan

Still throw up with the planets.

00;27;44;03 – 00;27;52;18

Julie

Oh the planets are awesome. Yeah. That’s a physics teacher from the area that did all mesh. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, Kirby.

00;27;52;18 – 00;28;07;07

Ryan

How much of Tartt’s annual success has been based on events that you hold? And did COVID affect those, or were you lessened because you’re outdoor? I mean, because there are less restrictions outdoor. But were you affected by that as well?

00;28;07;07 – 00;28;27;03

Julie

Yeah, we got hit. So events don’t make up a large part of our revenue stream, which is good because events are always, you know, kind of hit and miss depending on whether because we are an outside organization. So that part certainly again, we followed the gov’s orders and she said don’t. So we didn’t so we didn’t have our normal events.

00;28;27;09 – 00;28;45;25

Julie

Can rec or use of trails out there, which is awesome. But we didn’t pull people together, so it’s really nice. Like this week, tomorrow’s the end, the smart commute week. And that was just then. I think we’re I don’t remember what year we’re in. If we’re in 28 or 35 out, well, we’ll kill me on that one too.

00;28;46;05 – 00;28;47;18

Ryan

This is a perilous podcast.

00;28;47;18 – 00;29;10;28

Julie

Oh, it is. The numbers. The numbers are not my friends, but it was it’s been a tradition before Target was sTARTd to have smart commute week and to miss that last year, like the camaraderie and the community building that occurs in these events was a bummer. But you do things, you know, like this is it was serious. So we took it seriously.

00;29;10;28 – 00;29;28;19

Julie

And this year we’re back, we’re safe. It’s great. But like our commute we were having record numbers attend again in a really comfortable way toward a target will be back this year. So we definitely took a hit but it was a purposeful hit that we took.

00;29;29;08 – 00;29;36;19

Ryan

Well, you know, you mentioned the governor. Does your position take you to Lansing very often? Is there any kind of that kind of advocacy?

00;29;36;19 – 00;29;56;04

Julie

There are some good things about Koven and one of them is Zoom meetings. So yeah, I used to have to go to Lansing and my kids hated it. I don’t know, twice a month or so really. I serve on a couple of state boards. One is for Trail’s Michigan Trails and Greenways Alliance. So that’s the statewide trail organization, some of the board president for that.

00;29;56;04 – 00;30;11;04

Julie

And then I serve on the Michigan State Parks Advisory Committee, which today was big news for state parks. There was a $250 million culvert allocation that the governor has proposed for state parks and trails maintenance to really bring everybody up.

00;30;11;14 – 00;30;15;13

Ryan

And how is that an amount that’s significantly impactful?

00;30;15;14 – 00;30;16;24

Julie

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, yeah.

00;30;16;25 – 00;30;20;23

Ryan

Because it’s sometimes going to be relative. And you think is that impactful? That sounds like it is.

00;30;20;23 – 00;30;41;24

Julie

It is impactful. I think that the guesstimating budget on that backlog of maintenance was anywhere from 250 to 300 million. So getting 250 million that way, it’s a pretty clean slate. Now, maintenance is maintenance, so it’s ongoing. Sure. But yeah, that was a huge, huge. That’s proposal. Yeah, that’s good news.

00;30;41;24 – 00;30;47;06

Ryan

I had read in an article that rightly calls you the woman who built Travis City’s recreational trip.

00;30;47;07 – 00;30;49;11

Julie

Not rightly knew. Oh, I do not like that.

00;30;49;11 – 00;30;50;12

Ryan

This is just my opinion.

00;30;52;08 – 00;30;52;21

Julie

Well.

00;30;53;09 – 00;31;06;16

Ryan

Your humility is is clear the listeners can get. But in this article you confessed to being, quote, the worst person to walk with. Do you still maintain and support that statement?

00;31;07;08 – 00;31;13;01

Julie

I think so. Mark maybe can attest. I like we weren’t on the trail so I wasn’t quite as like.

00;31;13;20 – 00;31;14;05

Mark

The.

00;31;14;05 – 00;31;14;15

Julie

Critique.

00;31;14;17 – 00;31;24;21

Mark

The new sidewalk project through the neighborhood here. We had a walking meeting recently when we discussed having around the podcast and a few other common interests, something.

00;31;24;22 – 00;31;34;22

Julie

I was too. Sometimes I get frothy and really you get me walk of like Gary Hall and Tim Werner and watch out we we steamroll and it’s not pretty.

00;31;34;22 – 00;31;44;28

Ryan

So does this enthusiasm, as you put it, preclude you from enjoying what you are building and sustaining or can you turn it off sometimes?

00;31;44;28 – 00;32;06;08

Julie

No, I can never turn it off, but I don’t it doesn’t preclude me from enjoying it. It may preclude all the others around me. And I know my staff is always like, Oh God, she’s been on the trails because they just email or text like, you need to go look at this. But no, because all you do doing when, when I see this stuff is think of ways to do things better or what we could do.

00;32;06;08 – 00;32;09;22

Julie

We next time, you know, are, oh, look at this. Like now it’s energizing.

00;32;09;23 – 00;32;21;05

Ryan

So what about when you visit similar trails, other places? Are you just like these guys are doing it wrong? Oh my God. Can you enjoy it then and maybe laugh at how bad they’re doing it compared to taht?

00;32;21;06 – 00;32;29;03

Julie

Oh, you know, I am that awful kind of person who is very critical of me.

00;32;29;16 – 00;32;30;17

Ryan

I’m getting what you’re laying down. Yeah.

00;32;30;24 – 00;32;33;12

Julie

So I think it’s totally justified.

00;32;33;12 – 00;32;34;19

Ryan

Our podcast opinion.

00;32;35;05 – 00;32;52;13

Julie

Well, I tend to then see the only the mostly the positives of other places. So what I pick up is, oh my gosh, I want to do that, I want to do that. I want to do that. Did you see that? So and my husband’s way worse. We have pictures of him like lying in bike lanes and. Oh, what’s that?

00;32;52;13 – 00;33;04;24

Julie

Oh, my God. What’s that place in. In California, Silicon Valley. And he had like, he’s lying across and he’s he’s smashing himself in the middle of a bike lane. He’s like, look out why these bike lanes are. And it was a bad thing.

00;33;04;24 – 00;33;11;04

Ryan

So things are can be learned from like from you wouldn’t call them competitors, right? You just call them.

00;33;11;10 – 00;33;12;24

Julie

Colleagues, other places.

00;33;12;24 – 00;33;13;17

Ryan

Other places.

00;33;13;28 – 00;33;16;16

Julie

Counterparts, counterparts. Oh, that’s a good one, Mark.

00;33;17;05 – 00;33;22;08

Ryan

That is a good one. So finally, it may be a little personal, but tend.

00;33;22;08 – 00;33;23;02

Julie

To overshare.

00;33;23;03 – 00;33;34;06

Ryan

You know, I need to know and you mentioned bourbon, but do you still ride a tandem bike with your husband, Bill? And can you still win the occasional tequila competition?

00;33;35;07 – 00;33;37;28

Julie

Oh, my gosh. How do you know the tequila competition?

00;33;37;29 – 00;33;47;27

Ryan

I’m just asking a question that may have been I don’t know where it came from, but do you still ride a tandem bike with your husband and can you still win the occasional tequila competition?

00;33;48;15 – 00;34;09;00

Julie

Okay. I still ride a bike with my husband and I am not too proud to say he was right. I will say out loud for the world to hear he was right. And once we learned how to communicate and it’s very good therapy, it’s marriage therapy because you can be mad. It’s all get out with your spouse or your partner, but you have to talk on that thing.

00;34;09;16 – 00;34;29;02

Julie

Otherwise you both fall and it’s no fun. So he was right. We do ride it and now I can’t go down hills. I kind of got I don’t like speed I can’t staff on again will tell you that I don’t do speed downhill well so tandem I just close my eyes and I let them go and it’s pretty amazing.

00;34;29;02 – 00;34;40;27

Ryan

Wow, that’s a little butch. And Sundance, you got raindrops keep falling on my head trying to find time. Do you really? Yeah. Wow. And tequila. Now, have you stopped competing in the professional tequila circuit?

00;34;40;28 – 00;34;57;07

Julie

I am now a lightweight. I am sad that those days are behind me. My roommate, who had to pick me up after that one that I won and got the t shirt for. She would argue that perhaps I don’t remember my skills as well as I think I.

00;34;57;29 – 00;35;01;15

Ryan

Well, you’re cultivating your professional persona as well at the time.

00;35;01;15 – 00;35;15;03

Julie

Well, now I enjoy it though, you know, like I don’t need to win. I win by being able to pick out the better tequila instead of the well stuff. Right. I can tell the difference between. Well yeah, yeah.

00;35;15;19 – 00;35;20;16

Ryan

Well how can listeners support taht. I mean we talked about volunteers. What are the other ways.

00;35;20;18 – 00;35;41;03

Julie

Oh there are so many ways to support taht one is absolutely volunteer. Go to the website, learn all about us clearly. We’d love you to donate. That’s awesome. But most importantly like use your voices to support taht is awesome but let’s support our community and walkable bikeable places. So speak up at your community whether you live in a township or the city.

00;35;41;10 – 00;35;56;21

Julie

Let your elected official know what you like and what you don’t like. They’d love to hear what you like because nobody ever shares that part. Let them know when they’re doing a good job, when that new sidewalk comes in that that just zigged around that tree. Or maybe it was just a zag just because.

00;35;57;05 – 00;36;06;28

Ryan

Like there are a distinction between a zig and a zag. I think you’re a professional. Can you put this to rest? Because I have never known. I think I was zigging and maybe I was zagging. Yeah.

00;36;06;28 – 00;36;10;23

Mark

All I know is I’ve zigged when I was supposed to. Zach Oh.

00;36;11;03 – 00;36;12;20

Ryan

So you know, when you do it wrong? Yeah.

00;36;12;25 – 00;36;14;02

Julie

Yeah, I would agree with that.

00;36;14;09 – 00;36;17;00

Ryan

Well, the website is traverse trails, talk.

00;36;17;04 – 00;36;18;07

Julie

Traverse trails dotted.

00;36;18;13 – 00;36;21;08

Ryan

Trails dot org and you can donate directly. There’s is a.

00;36;21;15 – 00;36;23;28

Julie

Course you can a very big button that says there’s.

00;36;23;28 – 00;36;41;12

Ryan

A big button and you can learn about the trails. You can find the trail that may best suit you. I don’t think there’s any bay. It’s flat and it’s convenient and it’s beautiful. I moved here from Chicago where biking and walking could be a danger at any time. So having sport.

00;36;41;12 – 00;36;41;21

Julie

There.

00;36;41;21 – 00;36;42;18

Mark

Among other things.

00;36;42;24 – 00;36;47;28

Ryan

What you have is so amazing. Is there anything else that you’d like to share with our listeners?

00;36;47;28 – 00;37;02;19

Julie

Well, I will say that our vision is that every home is a trailhead. That’s what we want to get to. And that’s I mean, that’s really all of us that will need to work together to do. But we want you to be able to go out your door safely, walk or bike to get anywhere you want to go.

00;37;02;28 – 00;37;03;16

Julie

So that’s.

00;37;03;16 – 00;37;04;20

Ryan

Easily accessible and.

00;37;04;20 – 00;37;07;21

Julie

Safely accessible, safe, free, comfortable, convenient.

00;37;07;21 – 00;37;27;21

Ryan

Well, that’s amazing that like you’ve ever said that before, Sandy Well, Julie, thank you so much for your pursuits and to all those who pursue along with you sustaining and expanding the amazing Travers area, recreational trails and allowing all of us to experience it and love it just as much as you do. Probably not even close to as much as you do, but thank you so for being here.

00;37;27;22 – 00;37;28;29

Julie

Thank you for having me.

00;37;28;29 – 00;37;35;16

Ryan

And to you, our listeners, thank you so much for listening and thank you for pursuing the positive.

00;37;36;24 – 00;38;22;20

Mark

Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us again on the pursuit of podcast. Big thanks to our guests. Julie Clark for joining us from heart. That’s Travers area. Recreational and transportation trails can be found at Travers Trails Dawg. For those not from northern Michigan, the word is also traverse trails dot org and a big shout out to our supporters at the tin lid hat company tinlidco.com use promo code the pursuit for 40% off to our listeners and for audio visual inquiries podcasting check out new Leonard Dot.