00;00;03;04 – 00;00;24;21
Mark
ds a purely guest centric show focusing on people and organizations that advance positive change. Positivity can be anywhere and in a time of vast discord. The pursuit of this finding those who championed its causes loudest. Join us as we sit and learn about the pursuits of local leaders in their communities. Let’s go.

00;00;26;01 – 00;00;39;12
Ryan
Hello, good people and welcome to the pursuit of podcast where it’s truly not us, it’s you. My name is Ryan Buck, Artist Development for New Leonard Media with me as the Boss. Mark Wilson President News Leonard Media. How are you?

00;00;39;13 – 00;00;40;23
Mark
Hey, I’m real well. How you doing?

00;00;40;28 – 00;01;03;08
Ryan
I’m doing okay. All right. So kind of a bustling, breezy night. That’s enough of that. Our guest today is Miss Holly T. Bird, Supreme Court Justice for the Nottawaseppi Huron Band of Potawatomi and co-executive director of title track and council member of the Northern Michigan E3. Welcome, Holly.

00;01;03;26 – 00;01;04;24
Holly
McBride. Thank you so.

00;01;04;24 – 00;01;06;03
Ryan
Much. Thank you for being here.

00;01;06;19 – 00;01;07;12
Holly
I appreciate it.

00;01;07;16 – 00;01;33;04
Ryan
Well, we’re very excited to talk to you about what you’re doing with title track. But I have to start with a little bit of history because in college you canvased for an environmental lobbying group focusing on water contamination, which is interesting because Canvased is such a such a fun, intriguing term. But now your title track. Is that a coincidence that your focus on water started so early?

00;01;33;26 – 00;01;57;13
Holly
Not at all. You know, I’m a Native American woman. I’ve grown up around water. I grew up in Michigan and I’ve always had a relationship and have been affected by the water around us. So it was very natural for me with growing up with the values of appreciating our relationship with the water and having respect for the water to step into that role as a water protector.

00;01;57;28 – 00;02;13;06
Ryan
Wow. So the stated mission of title track is this engaging, creative practice to build resilient social, ecological systems that support clean water, racial equity and youth empowerment for those uninitiated. What is creative practice?

00;02;14;03 – 00;02;47;22
Holly
So I’m also a founding board member of Title Track, and I recently stepped into the role as a co-executive director. But we were very intentional with using the term creative practice rather than something like the arts, because the arts is not really an inclusive term for what everybody does in a creative way. Quite often the arts leaves out cultural practices, cultural creative practices, leaves out ceremony, leaves out different things that aren’t considered to be a, quote unquote fine art.

00;02;48;02 – 00;02;54;11
Holly
So we wanted to be inclusive, and we use the term creative practice instead so that we could include everybody. Wow.

00;02;55;01 – 00;03;20;23
Ryan
That’s really cool. Thank you. Fine. Arts. Distinguishing between regular and fine seems like a distinction that doesn’t need to be made. Right. Interesting. So a big part of title track’s existence is thanks to the need to want to research and education center to have their own amazing history. If you read on your website, which is title track Michigan dot org.

00;03;21;09 – 00;03;28;03
Ryan
You can read about their amazing history, but how did that work? Was that like a merger and acquisition or was it something different?

00;03;29;02 – 00;03;55;09
Holly
So Seth Bernard, who was really the founding visionary for title track and as my fellow co-director, had known Bob Russell and Sally Van Vleck from near Tijuana for his whole life. And they were both as members of the new Toronto organization. And Rick, they were very inspirational to him. So when he started sort of shopping, this idea about creating title track, he spoke to to Sally about it.

00;03;55;14 – 00;04;20;17
Holly
And Sally was the one that came up with the idea of, hey, you know, we’re kind of starting to close down here. She she was looking forward to sort of retiring and just running in the end and teaching yoga and thought it would be a great idea if instead of having to to create a brand new 501 C3, which, as we know, takes time and money, you know, that we just take over what they had started.

00;04;20;29 – 00;04;29;02
Holly
And so with that, we had a bunch of really great brainstorming sessions. We had a lot of input from the Atlanta members.

00;04;29;05 – 00;04;32;29
Ryan
Mm hmm. And there was getting input from the members.

00;04;33;00 – 00;04;57;25
Holly
It was really just conversational. You know, it was everybody was very supportive, but there was really no progression whatsoever as far as what we were trying to do and how that meshed with the values that Nia Tawana had started. So, you know, the members of Nia want to have such a long history of activism in the area and their archives are amazing, you know, the things that they’ve done, the educational materials they put together.

00;04;58;14 – 00;05;18;02
Holly
So the fact that we get to sort of access that when we need it, as well as the enthusiasm and the mentorship is such a gift. And so that’s what that’s what Seth kind of brought forward. And to celebrate that, we actually did it like an official passing of the torch that was ceremonial.

00;05;18;02 – 00;05;18;15
Ryan
Oh, wow.

00;05;19;05 – 00;05;35;14
Holly
We we held an event at the Twin Lakes Lodge with all of the new members and the members of the Atlanta. We had a ceremony that involved actually passing a torch and as well as some singing and dancing and. And then we had a celebration.

00;05;35;14 – 00;05;35;26
Ryan
Wow.

00;05;36;05 – 00;05;47;18
Holly
And then we we also embarked on doing the official, you know, part of it, which was changing the articles of organization and reflecting all the fun stuff. Yeah, reflecting a new name change and a new mission.

00;05;47;18 – 00;05;56;27
Ryan
So the ceremony is that a traditional native ceremony that you can draw on, or did you draw from different ceremonies, too, to commemorate that passing of the torch?

00;05;57;00 – 00;06;06;18
Holly
It drew on a lot of different traditions because there were you know, it was multicultural. Right. I was there and I was part of that ceremony. So I kind of brought that native element to it. But they’re.

00;06;06;18 – 00;06;06;27
Ryan
Saying.

00;06;07;15 – 00;06;11;20
Holly
Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I come from a actually very musical family.

00;06;12;28 – 00;06;13;25
Ryan
Okay. And a lot.

00;06;13;25 – 00;06;14;26
Holly
Of a lot of band members.

00;06;14;29 – 00;06;36;10
Ryan
I couldn’t have organized that transition better. Yeah, because your founder, Seth Bernard, is a musician, as you mentioned. Right. And he has a really epic, pretty dynamic song called Turkeys in the Rain. Yeah. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard. It’s a really good song. It’s not my normal style of music. Yeah, we’re really good. But there’s also seven musicians on the board.

00;06;36;27 – 00;06;46;07
Ryan
The musician is seen as a healing medium. Right? Right. So how big a part does music play in the overall picture of title track?

00;06;46;29 – 00;07;06;16
Holly
So for us, music is central in many ways. It’s not just musicians that we focus on because I have a musical family, but I have a background in visual art. So I went to Interlochen for dance and theater and then ended up graduating from undergrad with a degree in and visual art. So we include that stuff as well.

00;07;07;01 – 00;07;22;11
Holly
But I think with Seth’s enthusiasm for music, that’s why we’ve had so much influence with his connections. Right. And one thing that we do, and most people don’t know this unless they’ve been to one of our meetings, you know, we open up like our board meetings, we open up with a song and end with a song.

00;07;22;12 – 00;07;23;02
Mark
That’s awesome.

00;07;23;06 – 00;07;25;20
Ryan
A song you listen to or do you participate?

00;07;25;25 – 00;07;27;02
Holly
Somebody plays.

00;07;27;06 – 00;07;30;16
Ryan
Really? Yeah. Drive song. Sure. Oh, wow. Yeah.

00;07;30;18 – 00;07;47;23
Holly
Yeah. And sometimes it’s a poem. I’ve done, you know, native singing before for them and, you know, or an indigenous song for them and they’ve appreciated that or something non-Indigenous you know. And we’ve also read from Indigenous writers poets before, you know it’s we have a lot of fun with it.

00;07;47;29 – 00;07;59;28
Ryan
Your typical corporate board meeting, I think doesn’t start like that. No, no matter who’s got the PowerPoint and we’re going to put this up and have a Danish if you want it. Yeah.

00;08;00;03 – 00;08;28;03
Holly
Our work is it’s very it’s very heart centered. And I think that it’s also working on being anti oppressive. So to do that, you really have to uplift and recognize that we’re all human and that really all of this is about relationship and connection. So if you start off recognizing that whether it’s by song, by art, by prayer, by goodwill, you know, that’s going to put you on the right foot for the work that you have to do.

00;08;28;10 – 00;08;48;03
Ryan
Well, a lot of those concepts are great connectors. Everybody can get behind that and the start of meeting that way and a meeting that way specifically, I think ending a meeting that way, because ending is usually like everybody just wants to leave and run out the door. But to have that. All right, we did something is a nice bookend to that.

00;08;48;03 – 00;08;59;07
Ryan
That’s amazing. So you have a visual art and dance background and a legal background. Out of those two, Mary with one another, you’d think they wouldn’t. But I think maybe they do.

00;08;59;15 – 00;09;19;16
Holly
They really do, actually. When I was at Interlochen, like I said, I was there for dance and theater, both of which require a great deal of discipline, long hours of training, and you really have to know how to focus yourself. So even though I didn’t go on to be a dancer, I have actually been in production since then.

00;09;20;06 – 00;09;24;07
Holly
Even while I was in law school, I would do things within the arts.

00;09;24;07 – 00;09;27;24
Ryan
So hitting the books like in the movies and then dancing in the evenings.

00;09;27;25 – 00;09;32;27
Holly
Sure, sure. You know, I was in a production of Grease in Chicago and, you know, I did stuff like that.

00;09;33;05 – 00;09;33;22
Mark
Who who’d you play?

00;09;34;03 – 00;09;37;26
Holly
I was Jan. I was a pink lady, so, yeah, it was pretty fun.

00;09;37;26 – 00;09;39;17
Ryan
Did you ever guess as to who she was going to play?

00;09;40;03 – 00;09;41;19
Mark
I didn’t know she was quite a Rizzo.

00;09;42;23 – 00;09;53;14
Holly
I tried out for Rizzo. And here’s the thing. I wanted it really bad, and they gave it to someone who didn’t even audition. She was in another production. And so when this this woman came out, her name was was Catherine.

00;09;53;23 – 00;09;54;24
Mark
It must have been a good fit.

00;09;55;05 – 00;10;06;15
Holly
She was she’s an excellent singer, but I was ready to hate her. And so I bumped her off a bench during our first rehearsal together. And we ended up being best friends.

00;10;06;18 – 00;10;08;17
Ryan
Because, well, you establish dominance and.

00;10;08;17 – 00;10;08;27
Mark
Then. Yeah.

00;10;09;07 – 00;10;12;28
Holly
Oh, she did it. She did it right back. And we were fast friends. So, you know, we were great.

00;10;13;08 – 00;10;15;18
Mark
Yeah, that’s what I did. Ryan When I first had him in the studio.

00;10;15;21 – 00;10;27;04
Ryan
He constantly shoves me off benches and chairs in Grease was just added to the library Congress as a as a film of significant importance. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

00;10;27;24 – 00;10;32;14
Holly
And if you think about it, it is, I mean, significant cultural importance. And of American.

00;10;32;15 – 00;10;33;02
Mark
Classism.

00;10;33;03 – 00;10;36;13
Ryan
It’s bizarre. It’s a bizarre. They fly away in a car at the end.

00;10;36;16 – 00;10;40;01
Holly
It’s sexism, misogyny. It’s all in there.

00;10;40;08 – 00;10;44;26
Ryan
The idea is change. Exactly who you are and it’s all going to be fine. Right.

00;10;45;13 – 00;11;03;22
Holly
And to make that connection between the arts and what I do now, I think that the rigors and the discipline and the focus that I learned in the arts helped me become a lawyer. You know, I needed that stuff to to know how to study for hours. I needed that to feel comfortable advocating and speaking. And I really think it helps me.

00;11;03;22 – 00;11;06;29
Holly
I would say I’m never afraid to be in front of a crowd. I mean, rarely.

00;11;07;08 – 00;11;07;16
Mark
I.

00;11;07;18 – 00;11;08;11
Holly
Afraid to be in front of.

00;11;08;12 – 00;11;27;29
Mark
I actually just got done telling a friend whose young daughter is interested in acting and interested in podcasting, actually. And I had said that I think every child should have some experience with that because I think it really translates in the professional world and every other thing. I mean, hundred percent. Ryan, you’ve got a sales background. You know.

00;11;28;10 – 00;11;30;27
Ryan
It has everything to do with it. Present confidence.

00;11;31;02 – 00;11;31;21
Mark
Yep.

00;11;31;21 – 00;11;50;07
Ryan
In performance in, you know, if you’re in a theater production, it’s you and a whole bunch of people. If you’re a soloist, it’s you and you know, if you’re in a band, it’s you and three other people. But it instills confidence. And I think, you know, confidence without arrogance is a is a good thing. Right.

00;11;50;17 – 00;11;56;03
Holly
And I do think that my focus in the arts and, you know, I have a degree in anthropology as well, I came to.

00;11;56;04 – 00;11;58;04
Ryan
Wait, wait, wait a in that I didn’t find.

00;11;58;04 – 00;11;58;15
Mark
Anything.

00;11;58;15 – 00;12;01;01
Ryan
Else. My research team did not uncover this.

00;12;01;14 – 00;12;01;29
Mark
You got any.

00;12;01;29 – 00;12;03;23
Ryan
Degrees? Do you have a recounting like nine?

00;12;04;01 – 00;12;17;19
Holly
Well, I have, um, undergrad was, you know, art, social science, anthropology and theater. So I had, I had two majors and two minors, and then I have a law degree and I have done work.

00;12;18;04 – 00;12;18;12
Ryan
Like.

00;12;18;29 – 00;12;20;22
Holly
Post-Grad work as a judge.

00;12;20;23 – 00;12;22;23
Mark
Are you from a family of, like, overachievers?

00;12;22;28 – 00;12;25;20
Ryan
Maybe. I mean, everybody read into this.

00;12;25;20 – 00;12;29;18
Mark
Yeah. Everybody is just never like you got to keep going. Keep going.

00;12;29;27 – 00;12;36;28
Holly
Well, we have some accomplished people, but, you know, we also have some people that, you know, are living kind of normal day to day life.

00;12;36;28 – 00;12;38;15
Ryan
You come from a very large family.

00;12;38;19 – 00;13;01;29
Holly
I do. Yeah, I do. And I’m thankful for my family. We’ve got you know, we’re on all ends of the spectrum. So it’s been a great lesson for me as a person to grow up in my family, my mother was the very first person in the country to do what she did. So my mother was, as was Susan Michelle, and she was the very first person, I believe, in her family to go to college.

00;13;02;17 – 00;13;20;09
Holly
And she was a phlebotomist. And she began selling medical supplies and testing equipment. She was the very first woman to do that. And then she opened up Stryker Laboratories with Dr. Stryker, who was from the Kalamazoo family and that.

00;13;20;22 – 00;13;22;05
Ryan
Stryker, Stryker. Stryker, yeah.

00;13;22;09 – 00;13;40;15
Holly
That’s her name. First outpatient testing laboratory. We did the very first HIV testing in Michigan, as well as everything else, and then sold that Damon Corporation. And now, you know, it is Quest Diagnostics, which is OC, which is the premier medical lab. You know, testing laboratory in the United States.

00;13;40;27 – 00;13;45;21
Ryan
Yeah, I heard like the best sweet the like guest because she just keeps on right.

00;13;46;08 – 00;13;52;12
Holly
So my mom was definitely an inspiration. Yeah, I have to give her kudos. I mean, she passed and I’m very proud of her.

00;13;52;15 – 00;13;53;05
Ryan
That’s incredible.

00;13;53;05 – 00;13;56;11
Holly
Oh, yeah. And she started the children’s garden here too as well.

00;13;57;06 – 00;14;18;09
Ryan
So that’s amazing. So title track focuses on three and I forget I call them pillars. You have water equity in youth. And just so the listeners understand, are those three elements kind of symbiotically aligned to create success, or did those come from passions from people? If that makes sense?

00;14;18;17 – 00;14;46;25
Holly
They’re definitely symbiotic. They’re they’re all forms of something that makes up a resilient community. You can’t have youth empowerment with dirty water. You know, you can’t have water being uplifted without recognizing the fact that it’s so disparate on on people of color. When water systems go bad, you have to work all of those things together and it’s completely symbiotic.

00;14;46;25 – 00;15;02;28
Holly
So some of the stuff that we could do, it gives us a lot of freedom as well because they they seem so different. Yet on one hand, we were able to marry them, you know, and this is the funny thing is when we first started this, when I was, you know, a board member, I remember I had just come back from Standing Rock.

00;15;02;28 – 00;15;19;28
Holly
I was kind of tired and Seth was asking me to be on this board. And I remember listening to what he wanted to do and going, You know, that sounds really cool. I don’t know how you’re going to do it. Like, I really didn’t I didn’t think much would happen because it just seemed like a lot to put into one title, just kind of like you’re saying.

00;15;20;12 – 00;15;29;25
Holly
And yet that first year and you know, we’ve kind of gotten past our first year and going into our second was super successful. He did some amazing things with it.

00;15;29;27 – 00;15;47;05
Ryan
And you came into being on Earth Day in 2019, correct? Wow. Yeah. Now, the original founding was a couple on their wedding day. Right. So did you feel it important to mark the founding on an important day? I mean, Earth Day seems like a great choice.

00;15;47;08 – 00;15;50;09
Holly
That was definitely symbolic and it was intentional.

00;15;50;09 – 00;15;51;03
Ryan
Very intentional.

00;15;51;03 – 00;15;51;13
Holly
Yes.

00;15;51;21 – 00;16;12;15
Ryan
So what’s interesting is your focus on youth empowerment. And empowerment is kind of a loaded word. You know, that could be seen in different ways. But I think the youth is a demographic that’s really desirable to everybody. Everybody wants to get in on the ground floor, as it were, with humanity. And then you’ve got Xbox and Ps5 and all that kind of stuff.

00;16;12;28 – 00;16;20;02
Ryan
So how hard is it in this current climate to engage young people in caring about the environment, about caring about clean water?

00;16;20;03 – 00;16;43;19
Holly
It’s easier than you think because youth are interested in almost anything that you present to them a certain way. One of the things that we did very successfully is we approached the youth in Flint and there were a lot of youth that were going to some different programs. There, certainly suffering the effects of the Flint water system, certainly affected by impoverishment and sort of the flight.

00;16;43;26 – 00;16;44;15
Holly
You know, it’s.

00;16;44;20 – 00;16;52;06
Ryan
To stop it. You you brought up Flint that’s not been talked about in a while, is it? That’s a it’s good. Everything’s fine or.

00;16;52;10 – 00;16;53;00
Holly
Everything’s not.

00;16;53;00 – 00;16;53;29
Ryan
Fine. Is there still work.

00;16;53;29 – 00;16;55;19
Holly
To be done? No, there still is.

00;16;55;19 – 00;16;57;01
Ryan
We do not hear about it anymore.

00;16;57;06 – 00;17;08;22
Holly
Yeah, Flint is still broken. There’s still a lot of people who are very sick and it’s still certainly going through impoverishment. Yeah, it’s it’s definitely worthy of talking about. And there’s still a lot of work to be done in Flint.

00;17;09;01 – 00;17;18;24
Ryan
And are there people or organizations that you know of sorry to put you on the spot on the ground that are champions for that in that area or that you work with because you’ve got a lot of great partners.

00;17;18;24 – 00;17;39;14
Holly
Yes. I really love Melissa mayes. She is a water activist there. I really love Amber Hassan. She’s she’s there. She’s actually a poet, but she’s kind of somebody who’s down on the ground with that stuff and is really has spotlighted a lot of what’s happening to Flint residents. There’s We the People is you know, is an organization that we partner with in Detroit.

00;17;39;29 – 00;17;46;00
Holly
They’re in Detroit. But they they kind of spread out and help on different places. So there’s there’s quite a bit it’s interesting.

00;17;46;10 – 00;17;58;19
Ryan
You’ve mentioned the melding of artists and activists in corporate and legal and all these different backgrounds. What about this particular space seems to bring so many different people together.

00;17;59;16 – 00;18;00;04
Holly
About title.

00;18;00;04 – 00;18;13;09
Ryan
Track in general? Yeah, what you’re doing. I mean, it seems like you’re able to bring together a very diverse group of people working towards a common goal. How do you keep that in the same direction in your position?

00;18;13;21 – 00;18;33;11
Holly
Well, I think that’s that’s where creativity comes in. You know, if you have the freedom to be creative, you can widen those spaces. If you’re open to meeting people where they’re at and with what they have to present and accepting that, you know, then you’re then you’re you’ve got a lot, you know, there’s everybody has a lot to offer.

00;18;33;12 – 00;18;33;22
Holly
Right.

00;18;34;10 – 00;18;39;00
Ryan
Well, what would you say to somebody who says they’re not creative?

00;18;39;07 – 00;18;39;22
Holly
You know what?

00;18;39;22 – 00;18;43;21
Ryan
It’s as if somebody is really not creative and you’d be like, sorry.

00;18;44;04 – 00;18;58;06
Holly
Well, I think there’s different depends on what you mean by creative. There’s there are many different forms of creativity. My husband likes to say that he can’t sing. You can’t carry a tune, he can’t draw a picture. He would call himself uncreative and I think thinks.

00;18;58;06 – 00;19;00;24
Ryan
About literal create creating something right.

00;19;01;05 – 00;19;07;03
Holly
And I say, and yet you’re able to develop relationships with people and you’re one of the funniest people I know.

00;19;07;12 – 00;19;12;11
Mark
And I know. I know your husband. Yes. And he has been called a sponge of useless information.

00;19;13;26 – 00;19;18;26
Ryan
And he’s very identified with that. And I think that’s a very likable quality in a person.

00;19;19;00 – 00;19;21;11
Mark
It is because the random facts.

00;19;21;11 – 00;19;34;05
Ryan
They’re there for you when they when you need them. You could be having a down in the dumps day and this random fact you know all the Bond women in the movie is were dubbed by other actresses that weird fact will just make you happy and get you through the day.

00;19;34;22 – 00;19;52;08
Holly
Yeah, I always say people have different forms of creativity, so it takes creativity and it takes patience and it takes all of those things to inspire good relationships. Right. It takes a lot of creativity to be a funny person, you know, to to come up with a witty joke and intelligence, you know, so there’s a lot of that in everybody.

00;19;52;27 – 00;19;55;05
Holly
It just depends on what you the way you look at it.

00;19;55;05 – 00;20;10;21
Ryan
Right. So so we talked about partners. We’ve got a lot of great partners, including Crosshatch Groundwork, Center for Resilient Communities to talk about We the People. How do you approach partnerships? In what criteria is important to you in a partner?

00;20;10;21 – 00;20;35;23
Holly
Well, for our organization, we look at our alliance with our goals and that the way that we do things, we’re not necessarily goal oriented. We’re we’re more value centered. So we look at organizations that have values that align with ours. We look at organizations that are doing things really well, you know, that seem to be passionate about what they do and also advancing a goal of the common good, right?

00;20;35;24 – 00;20;54;19
Ryan
Yeah. Now you’re founding organization near to want a research and education center. A lot of their early work was founded on activism. Correct. Which is is interesting. So does that carry through the title track? And in this environment, you know, where do those activities lie at this point?

00;20;55;03 – 00;21;23;02
Holly
It really does carry through. Even though we’re not a political organization and we don’t endorse specific candidates, we do talk about issues. And part of what we do is we we allow artists and crafters and artisans to express themselves and become part of this to support an issue that they have. So a lot of our our musicians, for example, are really passionate about water.

00;21;23;16 – 00;21;32;22
Holly
We’ll put on a show or sponsor a panel or something that reflects those issues, you know. So, hey, can you come on and sing a song about the water?

00;21;32;22 – 00;21;47;08
Ryan
It seems like that’s a natural connect, right? Yeah, I do music, poetry in order to to galvanize, in order to raise money, in order to get people. And that’s been it’s been like that forever. I mean, if you think about it, activists.

00;21;47;10 – 00;21;48;28
Mark
It takes storytellers.

00;21;48;28 – 00;22;10;16
Ryan
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You got your Bob Dylan, too. You know, there’s so many stories about how people have used their their gifts for good and maybe are in a song is, you know in the modern age that we’re at in the YouTube age. But that’s always been an interesting parallel, I think using creativity to inspire positivity in the world and activism.

00;22;10;18 – 00;22;27;27
Mark
And like how I was saying, you know, positivity doesn’t necessarily have to be partizan, right? Just like the show we bring out people that we would like to work with and that do focus on positive change in the world, in our society, and that it doesn’t necessarily have to be partizan.

00;22;27;27 – 00;22;49;01
Holly
Right. And I would say, you know, part of the power of creative practice is that when we when we do have issues, when we do have struggles, when we do have things such as this pandemic, you know, that are affecting our community, I would say as a native person, we just when we’re in the middle of like a hard thing, we just sing louder, you know, we pray harder, we love harder.

00;22;49;01 – 00;23;05;07
Holly
We we make art more prolifically. And that’s sort of what we’re we’re doing, you know, we’re singing louder, right? We’re we’re inspiring artists to become part of doing this work.

00;23;05;09 – 00;23;05;25
Ryan
Exactly.

00;23;05;25 – 00;23;13;04
Holly
We bring in people to help do songwriting classes with the youth. We’re going to start a Water Protector training program for youth this year.

00;23;13;21 – 00;23;14;24
Ryan
Really? Where is that going to happen?

00;23;14;24 – 00;23;24;07
Holly
And it’s going to be indigenous inspired. That’s going to happen virtually to begin with. So and as soon as we can branch out, we’ll we’ll probably start it up.

00;23;24;07 – 00;23;46;11
Mark
And I think the positivity is contagious, you know, and it tracks like minds and it’s not hard to get people on board. Yeah. And whenever we think about you just mentioned the pandemic, it’s hard with what we’re going through. But to stop and think about what our elders and ancestors have been through and put up with the small price to pay to get the world back on track.

00;23;47;00 – 00;24;08;29
Ryan
Music has always been a core of that. And if you look at, you know, adversity and turmoil, that’s always a good breeding ground for creativity, which seems a great place to settle next to your mission, which is amazing. So I see that Joe Short, as a board member of yours and obviously clean water is very important to the beer business.

00;24;09;07 – 00;24;11;20
Ryan
How did that union happen? Well, you.

00;24;11;20 – 00;24;31;02
Holly
Know, we say, you know, if you don’t have clean water, you don’t have beer. Right. But Joe, Joe’s been passionate about clean water in addition to, you know, beer for a long time. And he’s a musician. So I think that title track appealed to him because of of all of those things that he loves and that he’s passionate about.

00;24;31;14 – 00;25;05;11
Holly
He came on as a board member through Seth. So, you know, so that kind of picked him out and said, I know you’d be good at this. And sure enough, he has, you know, one of the really cool things that that he shared and sort of was leading up was craft libations for collective liberation, which is a program through title track, where we’ve inspired the breweries to start going through racial justice training, and so that they could spread that among their employees and on within their communities.

00;25;05;11 – 00;25;27;15
Holly
And we we started there with the breweries because of Joe, you know, because Joe is part of that beautiful community of brewers who are making craft beers and craft, I guess, libations that would be called it doesn’t matter that, for example, I don’t drink. You know, what matters is that’s his passion. And there’s a lot of people that are passionate about the subject of racial justice, right?

00;25;27;16 – 00;25;34;20
Holly
So they’re fundraising, they’re doing trainings. And it’s you know, it’s been a very great and successful program.

00;25;34;24 – 00;25;44;22
Ryan
So and not to get too technical, but I know a lot of companies have diversity requirements. Is there a difference between diversity training and racial justice training?

00;25;44;28 – 00;25;52;00
Holly
Absolutely. So diversity training, I would say, is very eighties diversity training. Really just talked about.

00;25;52;01 – 00;25;53;13
Ryan
Really neon as what you’re saying.

00;25;53;13 – 00;26;15;12
Holly
Yeah, pretty much. You know, it’s that was really focused on, okay, we’re going to teach people from a white framework, you know, that there are people with differences than you. And that’s not a bad thing, you know. So it was really about teaching tolerance and then also telling them, you know, you can’t say these things around people or you’re going to get in trouble.

00;26;16;07 – 00;26;32;12
Holly
What anti-racism is goes a little further because it requires people to examine themselves and find out what their biases are. What is it that you hold inside that you may or may not know about that can be harmful or oppressive to people around you?

00;26;32;12 – 00;26;32;28
Ryan
That’s heavy.

00;26;33;04 – 00;26;43;26
Mark
Yeah, that’s a big concept. And it’s a lot of us don’t realize it about ourselves. And that’s that’s okay. As long as when things are brought to light, you’re able to look.

00;26;43;26 – 00;26;46;03
Ryan
Yeah, I can imagine that can be tough for some.

00;26;46;06 – 00;27;10;11
Holly
And here’s the thing. Every single person in the United States who’s who’s been through our school system has been taught racism has been taught to be racist because it’s within our system. That’s where we talk about these things like, hey, I bet you didn’t you know, you probably didn’t know this. If you really knew what the meaning of Thanksgiving was and how it started, you might think differently about celebrating that, you know, as a holiday for your family or maybe celebrating it differently or.

00;27;10;12 – 00;27;11;01
Ryan
Running it differently.

00;27;11;01 – 00;27;39;08
Holly
You know, it’s about bringing that that realization around internally, and it’s also about healing people. So, you know, we believe that both sides of any issue regarding racial justice need to be healed. White people have hurt their own hearts by participating in white supremacy. There’s a healing that needs to take place, whether they think so or not, you know, in order for them to be able to connect and be open to all people.

00;27;39;11 – 00;27;40;08
Ryan
Right.

00;27;40;08 – 00;27;57;06
Holly
Because it’s a lonely place to be. If you regard a whole other group of people as something that’s negative, you know, that shuts you off to relationships and opportunity. So we believe that needs to be healed and we also need to heal from that. You know, then we come together and move forward.

00;27;57;14 – 00;27;59;25
Ryan
She’s amazing. Yeah. Let’s just go.

00;28;00;25 – 00;28;05;29
Mark
Culture. That is. That’s why I really was excited to get you on the show. Have you come in to talk about it?

00;28;06;00 – 00;28;29;08
Ryan
So you talked about Coven and a lot of people like to try to find the silver lining if it exists and see the positive. So a lot of things that I’ve been reading, a lot of people out, less exhaust on the roads. Has any of this last year been good for water in general? Has. There’s less people outside?

00;28;29;08 – 00;28;34;14
Ryan
Has there been any positive influence to our water because of COVID?

00;28;35;18 – 00;28;36;21
Holly
You know, it’s.

00;28;38;03 – 00;28;39;06
Ryan
I guess you’re not a scientist.

00;28;39;06 – 00;28;57;21
Holly
You you have to say no, I. I would agree with that. I mean, it’s unfortunate to say that, but the fact that people are less active, not driving around as much, they’re not using as much energy, not polluting as much has had a positive effect on our entire I.

00;28;57;21 – 00;29;04;23
Ryan
Mean, there are some people, friends of mine, who said, like, does the sky look a little bluer to you? And I kind of choose to believe that. Yeah. Yeah. Weird way.

00;29;05;09 – 00;29;09;17
Mark
Said that there was a noticeable change in air quality and as well as in.

00;29;09;17 – 00;29;11;08
Ryan
Places like India, very varied.

00;29;11;19 – 00;29;14;10
Mark
Behavior. So are the behaviors of wildlife.

00;29;14;24 – 00;29;15;17
Ryan
Okay. Yeah.

00;29;15;17 – 00;29;29;23
Holly
And we’ve seen wildlife come back to some places that were you know, you saw pictures of like deer walking on the shore or downtown in some cities that were were closed up due to quarantine. And people were amazed. And I’m like, what? You didn’t know they were there.

00;29;30;07 – 00;29;36;28
Ryan
And interesting for the animals, they’re like everything forever and ever. And then for a couple of weeks, they’re like, Oh, people are.

00;29;37;04 – 00;29;37;27
Holly
Yeah, we feel safe.

00;29;37;28 – 00;29;42;21
Ryan
Like, should we? Let’s go check out downtown Traverse City Deer. And what about Frostiness?

00;29;42;24 – 00;29;45;21
Holly
What does that say about us? That animals stay away from us?

00;29;46;00 – 00;29;58;17
Mark
Yeah, well, you know, as we urban sprawl, there is more and more sightings of animals that have lost their habitat that are just looking for something to eat in town, right? Yes.

00;29;59;10 – 00;30;18;19
Ryan
Well, if you if you look at a lot of there’s some books about this movie like 12 Monkeys, the first thing that happens is nature takes back the earth and doesn’t look like a terrible thing know. So what is the best way for anyone interested in supporting title track looking for volunteer opportunities, even if it’s just virtual to donate?

00;30;18;19 – 00;30;21;15
Ryan
What’s the best way to contact you and support title track?

00;30;21;25 – 00;30;46;24
Holly
So go to title track Michigan Dawg and take a look at what we have to offer. There’s programs there right now. Most of our offerings are with racial justice training and we’re finishing up our last cohort for the year and then we’re going to start back up again in February. But we also, you know, provide those youth trainings and we provide, you know, opportunities for artists to be supported too, right?

00;30;47;02 – 00;31;08;15
Holly
So we’ve got our fingers in a lot of different things, so it’s almost hard to quantify. But like another part of our program that we’re doing this year is we’re going to be showcasing indigenous artists for this year and doing kind of a fundraiser for print and things like that and making sure people get to know who they are and hopefully supporting their work.

00;31;08;21 – 00;31;23;04
Holly
We’re going to be hopefully doing that, you know, for years to come with different people. We’re going to be still doing skill swaps like we do every year. We work hand in hand, of course, with the harvest gathering and earthworks, we do a lot of really, really fun and amazing things.

00;31;23;04 – 00;31;36;18
Ryan
So awesome. And if it maybe this isn’t your wheelhouse, sorry, but if a company, a local or otherwise wanted to include racial justice training in their and their organization, could they reach out to you either for resources or to do it?

00;31;36;21 – 00;31;53;10
Holly
Yeah, we’re we’re trying we’re right now we’re in the process of customizing programs for organizations. So we’re working, for example, we’ve made offerings to the Traverse City Police Department. And we’re we’ve been asked by the Leelanau County sheriff for something similar. Yeah, we’re we’re open to all of it.

00;31;53;25 – 00;32;13;00
Ryan
You know, I knew this podcast would be just wonderful and affirming and we’re not that many episodes in, but wow, this has been tremendous. Thank you so much. Oh, absolutely. Thank you so much for your pursuits. And to all those who pursue along with you and to the listeners, thank you all for listening and pursuing the positive. Thank you so much.

00;32;13;00 – 00;32;19;26
Holly
I regret that regret for what you’re doing as well.

00;32;19;26 – 00;32;51;04
Mark
Thank you for listening one more time with the pursuit of podcast. For more information and to get involved with title track, go to title track michigan dot org also catchy me gretch much thanks to our supporters. Urban Meds Traverse City Michigan, H&M Wellness Store AECOM and a huge shout out to ten lid hat company ten lid COCOM use promo code the pursuit of on both websites for an exclusive discount to our listeners.

00;32;52;02 – 00;32;58;18
Mark
Thank you so much. All feedback is appreciated and we hope you join us on the next one.